I remember thinking how glad I was that we ‘did’ Macbeth for O-level, as any other play would have been ruined for me, but the Scottish one could stand up to the treatment! Which thoughts set me thinking…
I do know we ‘did’ a book of Caesar’s Gallic Wars in Latin, but all that entailed seemed to be an ability to translate a bit of it in the exam. I actually was hopeless and literally learned enough, parrot fashion, in both languages, to be able to recognise the bit we got and trot out the English from memory! I have a vague recollection of Catullus and possibly Virgil. I recall no French literature whatsoever. I’m not sure if we ‘did’ any!! Yet @Novem seems to be doing English literature as a subject in its own right. What do plant Cymraeg learn now? Do they do the same GCSE in Welsh and English medium schools? Is the Welsh at the same level as the English? Do they get ‘English as a second language’ or ???
If a pupil in Finland can do a Literature exam in what is, presumably, officially her third language, it is a bit shocking if a pupil in Britain cannot do it in his/her 2nd language!!
I suspect everyone gets the same English GCSE, but people who speak Welsh as a first language get a different Welsh GCSE to people who people who speak it as a second language.
My level of English is not a great example of most Finns’. For some reason my English was good enough for me to get into an International Baccalaureate school, where almost all teaching is in English. People don’t usually do English literature at my age 
(though they might in university or even in upper secondary as an optional course).
I am not sure that any child in the UK gets to such a school except possibly by paying vast fees! The Welsh Baccalaureate, as far as I can tell, is a very watered-down version which most universities, even in the UK, don’t recognise! We could learn much from your country. One thing we could learn is that it is OK to give opportunities to the brightest at anything to progress, not just to those good at swimming or rugby or tossing hammers!
We have lots of those programmes. From about 7-5 everyday is very much Cyw (the children’s programme)
Some of the (sadly, predictable) comments on the Daily Post site to the linked article are very disappointing. The usual cliches about Cymraeg being a waste of money etc. are repeated ad nauseam. Also, there are hypocritical comments about not wanting to “force a language” on people, when, of course, English was forced on so many Welsh speakers not all that long ago.
Of course, Ynys Mon Council are NOT forcing anyone to speak an unchosen language, just presenting the benefits of learning the original language of local people and, of course, defending the rights of those who do not want to be forced to speak English
Anyway, I guess the (positive) point is that the Council are doing something to increase awareness and I should resist the temptation to be too disheartened by the customary negative comments.
This is an interesting article from an Irish perspective: http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/you-can-identify-with-irish-or-not-it-s-just-a-language-not-an-ideology-1.2810253
I think here in Wales it’s important to say that Welsh does not equal nationalism. There’s nothing wrong with being a Welsh nationalist who speaks English, or not and speak Welsh. (I’m saying this as a member of Plaid Cymru). I think it’s important to separate Welsh from politics as much as possible to encourage the di-Gymraeg. There’s a lot of isolation felt (not always fairly) by those who don’t speak Welsh who associate it with people who hold more extreme views on Wales’ future. The two things are related but not the same and I think that is important to spread the language.
That is clearly true, but I would think that those of us who are Nationalists are quite likely to want to learn our National language.
However, there are almost certainly far more worldwide who learn it because it is beautiful or ancient or…any number of reasons with nothing to do with Nationalism!
There are lots of Welsh nationalists who don’t want to learn the language too. It’s not a given. That’s my point. That’s also the point the article makes about Irish. About how international the language is. I reason I shared this is because this thread is about building support for the Welsh language. The assumed connection between Welsh and nationalism harms this.
Interesting quote in that article.
“Irish speakers being told they can’t use their language on a football pitch”
I remember one of the newsreaders on the Today show on Radio 4 ostentatiously stifling her giggles when reading a story of a cricket team who had walked off the pitch on being told they couldn’t speak Welsh to each other. Presumably it had been put in to give the newsreaders and people listening a good laugh.
Our Welsh government needs to promote and push Welsh media- a media which will reflect the interests and attitude of the people of Wales, in the same way that the London government promotes and pushes a media which reflects the interests of those it considers to be its people.
I understand where you’re coming from, but in my experience any problem is from people assuming nationalism is something extremist Welsh speakers are concerned with, rather than that Welsh speaking is something only for nationalists.
Though there seems to be a cottage industry of letters in green crayon seemingly against the Welsh language itself being turned out for Welsh newspapers, I suspect that may have something to do with who is choosing them for publication, as in the flesh, the vast majority of WeIsh people Ihave spoken to on the subject are in favour of the idea of Welsh existing, like hearing it, would like to speak it if there were a magic pill - regardless of their opinions on the details of money being spent or whatever.
Just my experience, as I say.
And I can’t see any problems with stressing what you say, even if I don’t think it’s necessary!
I agree, most I have met say they like the Welsh language and would like to learn it. However, I’ve witnessed how quickly that can turn when a media outlet makes a storm in a tea cup (e.g. the Welsh football team and the gorsedd). There was a programme that interviewed people in a village in Blaenau Gwent and their local councillors who were staunchly opposed to spending money on the Welsh language because it doesn’t represent them. They saw it as an imposition upon them from “the other” and the phrase “Gog nationalists” was heard. This is the view I’m on about, we need to expose that it’s not 100% true.
Yeah, I’ve seen too many programmes over the years like that. The most recent one being that awful “week in week out” programme by that bloke whatsisname. Apparently his follow up programme led to tragedy.
Now I just ignore them and go by people I actually meet and talk to on Welsh matters. Hence my comments on Welsh media above.
But yes, you are right, this sort of attitude should not be pushed by the Welsh media - so again, more need for Welsh media.
So yes, I agree.
I see where you are coming from here and often thought the same myaelf. The only problem is that by working to counter comments put forward by others all the time then we arenot really controlling the agenda. Far better in my mind to focus on the positive sides and not allow our thinking to be too distracted by these sort of things. just my thinking
It’s a very complex issue, and it is very important that people who do not speak Welsh are not told they are “just like the English”. This is not only obviously untrue, (I know my Welsh relatives and friends are distinctively Welsh, both English speaking and Welsh speaking) but would be insulting (not specifically comparison with the English of course!) and very counterproductive.
An interesting theory on a complex issue. It may be the case that the language preserved the identity of the country in the past, but in my experience (as someone living in Wales, and having experience dealing with people over such issues), there are plenty of people who are not learning to speak Welsh who are becoming increasingly open to discussing the idea of independence for Wales. The main cause of that seems to have been the increasing likelihood of Scotland leaving the union. So many non-Welsh speakers are taking the idea seriously. Indeed, they have done in the past.
Just my experience, as I say.
Um… can anyone imagine a South African cricket team being told they couldn’t speak Afrikaans or Xhosa or whatever language they fancied? Don’t members of the Canadian curling team speak French?
That’s just one of the many points you made which made me want to give a lot more than 1 like!!
This is something that I see come up every so often, but seems a little odd to me. To expect another language, in this case English, to use another language’s name for itself seems an odd fit. The form of the word is not a comfortable fit for English and in this situation a word would normally be anglicised to fit within normative spelling and pronunciation expectations.
To use Cymraeg to refer to Welsh, when speaking English, would be like referring to Mandarin Chinese as pŭtōnghùa or take the sentence “Dw i’n siarad Sbaeneg”, should it now be “Dw i’n siarad español”.
I do understand that the etymology of the word ‘Welsh’ is problematic but I don’t think this is the answer. I think it is likely to create more push back and mocking than an increase in national pride.
Still, the more I mull over this, I think it’s all ελληνικά to me.
I withdrew my post, because i felt I made a bit of an error in posting something that. might take this thread in the wrong direction and i was being a bit confrontational which in hindsight was wrong. Happy to have theae sorts of discussions elsewhere though.