I’m on Lesson 21 of Level 1 (North) and I’m having some trouble because I’m confused about “govyn”. Why is it that in some cases, for example “govyn wrthaf fi be’ i wnaed” but in other cases a word gets in between “Govin” and “wrthaf”? For instance, “Govyn rhywbeth wrthaf fa mam”?
I’ve noticed it’s usually “something” or “anything” but are there other words that sneak in between the act of questioning and the questioned?
Thank you! (and sorry about any spelling yn y Gymraeg, I haven’t done much written yet)
I’m not helping! I’ve been trying to think of another example. I have failed, but it’s impossible to prove a negative so there maybe other words, You may have to wait for @aran to get back from the Eisteddfod to find out! I want to know too!!
p.s. are you new to the Forum? If so, Croeso!! It is very friendly!
I agree with henddraig that you might need to wait for Aran to come back from the Eisteddfod (which will be next week now) to get a definitive answer.
But I wonder if it’s something to do with prepositions? I’ve got a handy little book called “Pa Arddodiad”, which lays out a number of verbs and the prepositions that they take (which is always one of the hardest things to get to grips with a new language, as they often don’t map across from one language to another). It gives me these different options, with my own suggested translations in square brackets:
gofyn am (rywbeth) [to ask for (something)]
gofyn (rhywbeth) gan (rywun) [to ask (for something) from (someone)]
gofyn i (rywun wneud rhywbeth) [to ask (someone to do something)}
gofyn i (rywun) am (rywun/rywbeth) [to ask (someone) about (something/something)
gofyn dros (rywun) [to ask after (someone)
But after I typed all this out I realised that none of these uses ‘wrth’. So I did a bit of Googling, and found this:
Hope some of this helps! It might be too much information, though.
I asked Aran a similar question about gofyn + wrth under the Tiny Questions with quick answers thread and he responded:
and Gareth King confirmed this:
I have also asked one of my tutors about how much should be included between the dweud and the wrth, and she said, everything(!), even if it makes it a really long sentence before you find out who was involved in the conversation! I don’t know if the same thing applies to gofyn.
I should think it’s all fairly flexible in conversation, after all the person who was told something might be more important than what was actually said - you might want to get that information out first! Also, in my case, where I am likely to forget the wrth after dweud, I like to get it in early in the sentence!
As with most things, I suppose. What kind of things were you thinking of putting between the dweud and the wrth, then? A really long subject, you mean? Dwedodd Ysgrifenyddes Dirprwy Is-Reolwr Cangen Aberystwyth Banc y NatWest wrth y staff am weithio’n galetach. The NatWest Bank Aberystwyth Branch Deputy Sub-Manager’s secretary told the staff to work harder - that kind of thing?
What about He told Nia about the reaction of the NatWest bank staff in the meeting in the Morlan Centre, when they realised that the Deputy Sub-Manager’s secretary wanted them to work harder for longer.
Would you just use ‘Wnaeth o ddweud wrth Nia am…?’ Or 'Dwedodd o wrth Nia am…
Or would you put everything that he said before ‘wrth Nia’?
Thanks all! So is wrth not a very commonly used word in everyday use? It seems as though it’s a bit up to your discretion where to put it! It just always takes me by surprise when Catrin and Aran say “gofyn rhywbeth wrthaf fi” but then “gofyn wrthaf fi sut i wneud o” for example (excuse spelling again!).
Well I guess in that case it’s because with “sut i wneud o”, that’s like, another clause, so it would sound rather clumsy inserted before the “wrthaf fi” (and may even be ungrammatical but let’s not go there… ), whereas you can get away with inserting a word, or a few words (i.e. a phrase). But once another verb comes on the scene, it starts getting more complicated…
…well, that’s the way I look at it, taking a rather simplified view.
I hadn’t even noticed that the original question said wrth!! Oh dear!! I was thinking gofyn i when I tried to think of things to put between them!!
p.s. Where are you @Scarlett? Do you watch S4C?
It’s a very common word - but like lots of other common words, it can be flexible about where it goes. Don’t worry about this - use whatever comes to mind first, and over time you’ll develop your own preferences for what feels right in any given situation…
