[quote=“cyd, post:78, topic:3153”]
what is the difference between syrthio and cwympau? Is it a North/South difference…or a context difference? [/quote]
According to my dictionary (Gareth King) both cwympo and syrthio mean “(to) fall.” (Each of those entries refers you to the other for example.) He says that cwympo is mostly used in the South, and that cwympo can also mean “(to) drop” while he only gives “(to) fall” for syrthio (and doesn’t indicate North or South).
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That was William Salesbury wasn’t it? In the New Testament. He spelled a load of words showing Latin connections, tenuous or not. I seem to remember reading other more knowledgeable people (than me, not Gareth King 
) saying that there was no evidence he thought the words were derived from Latin - it was possibly more that just spelling words to look like Latin was meant to look impressive and prestigious (yeah, at least just as daft). And that he didn’t intend the words to be pronounced as he was spelling them- which would have rendered all those poems already written in cynghanedd invalid at one stroke- just that he was using a spelling system which wasn’t as good as the one already in place.
Apparently only a few words got carried over into use in later versions of the bible and other writing (ei, of course, and sanctaidd off the top of my head), so these are having an effect on pronunciation he apparently didn’t intend!
Mind you, spelling has an effect on pronunciation in any literate population- the “h” in front of “herb” or the “th” in clothes can be pronounced or not depending on where you come from! It’s a natural thing. But of course it’s what people actually say, rather than whether it is derived from spelling that matters. Which is what Gareth King said, of course.
Just general burbling off the top of my head, and would say I was teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, but it’s for people other than Gareth King if they are interested (I’m sure Gareth King will either know this already, or have a completely justified lack of interest in the matter!*), as someone was unwise enough to say they liked the history of it!
And it could be all rubbish, as I can’t remember where I read it at the moment
(*And nor, indeed, is he my grandmother.)
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Just to put everybody’s minds at rest here - I can confirm that I am not owainlurch’s grandmother.
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[quote=“garethrking, post:81, topic:3153, full:true”]
Just to put everybody’s minds at rest here - I can confirm that I am not owainlurch’s grandmother.[/quote]
Ah, that’s comforting indeed! 
Hello everyone, I have just reached lesson 6 in the Welsh course (south) and I’ve got a quick question. Sut wyt ti’n dweud for example “I don’t know what you want” in Welsh? (And did I get that right?)
Dw i ddim yn gwybod achos dw i’n meddwl it’s “dw i ddim yn gwybod beth wyt ti’n moyn” but I don’t know if you need the “wyt” there. I can’t quite hear it in the podcast. Is it just “beth ti’n moyn”? Is it like that in all similar sentences? I’m just guessing based on looking at the lesson guides.
Thanks in advance! I’m really enjoying this so far.
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Hello and Croeso/Welcome. This one comes up often. See this thread.
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Thank you, @craigf! I didn’t realize it was such a common question. I usually put in a little “w” sound between the words automatically, even though I wasn’t sure if it’s correct. I think I’ll stick with that after all! Diolch.
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I have come across ‘syrthio mewn cariad’ in the North.
Ignoramus here!! How was sanctaidd supposed to be pronounced? I mean, I quite like it as it is, but I’d love to know what it was like before this snobby writer!! Oh, and I loved the vision of @garethrking pushing a diminutive @owainlurch in his pram!!!
Interesting. And diolch, Sionned.
(along the same lines, Memrize has gollwng for “(to) drop”
I’m not sure I’d describe Salesbury as “snobby” because of that. The spelling system he used didn’t catch on, but it was no more bizarre- rather less bizarre!- than they way English is spelled. It was simply that at the time (whenever it was, some time before 1588) the Latin language was highly regard by all European peoples as the language of culture and philosophy.
If the spelling had caught on, we would be used to it and probably think of it as a perfectly normal spelling system!
And whatever his spelling, apparently he was a man of considerable learning and energy to make an influential translation of the New Testament, which may well have been a good thing for the Welsh language itself.
He introduced the “c” into “sanctaidd”, which would have been “santaidd” before that. It showed the connection with Latin “sanctus”. (Which in this case, it was actually borrowed from! Rather than simply being connected in a family way, like “ei” and “eius”).m
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Gollwng is very common - I would say almost standard - for ‘drop’; its basic meaning is ‘let go’/leave hold of’, and this includes accidental dropping. But I must say I did hear cwympo in the same meaning, at least in Ceredigion: 'ti ‘di cwympo dy faneg’ - you’ve dropped your glove.
Syrthio as far as I know can only mean ‘fall’; Fynes-Clinton in his day, up in Bangor of course, reckoned that in that area ‘syrthio’ was the general term, but that ‘cwympo’ was used for leaves: Mae’r dail wedi dechrau cwympo ‘the leaves have started falling/dropping’.
All good fun.
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I’ve bowled through the first three lessons ( North) but … I need to press pause a lot, as I have sequence/ recall issues, and need to repeat the question a couple of times before my brain registers what I am going to have to say, or I even have to write the “question” down…so a half hour lesson takes at least an hour; I have been trying to learn for a while, and already know all the words, but as you can imagine it is a bit of a strain… and maybe not just for me; the screen keeps " freezing", and I have to start again. Has anyone else found that it crashes? It may be my ancient computer…please could people let me know if I am only one having this problem.
Plus I was relieved to hear that other people have found some of the speech unclear, despite what is obviously a big effort to make things plain; I heard tua as ci-a every time; though again, that might be my brain or the computer.
Just a suggestion: Why you don’t download the lessons and play them directly from your computer? I’m doing so and usually have no problem.
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My apologies to the gentleman scholar, I got quite the wrong notion of him. Of course having the Bible in one’s own language was hugely beneficial and I much prefer ‘sanctaidd’! I had thought you meant he changed the vowel!!
My ‘auntie’ born in Abertawe in 1906, always said ‘leave go’ for drop!!
Here we are right at the start of a new week, and we’ve already had the best post of the week… 
Do bear in mind that you’re talking about one of the most challenging jumps of all there - if you’re getting stuck/worried at this point, it might be a good idea for you to do some Skype stuff where at first you just practice saying a few pre-agreed questions/answers… dip your toes in before jumping in head first…
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That sounds like a good idea, actually. I’ve been chatting with people at least once a week, and it’s been getting a little easier each time…I think it’s just the pressure of having to speak to a real person that makes me nervous!
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It’s the toughest step of all. I always get vicariously terrified when I know learners are planning to start using their Welsh with complete strangers, without having done any ‘ease into it’ stuff beforehand…
If you keep up the once a week stuff, it will eventually reach the point where it’s so familiar you can’t imagine being nervous about it, and that will be your sign that you’re ready to push on to more challenging situations
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I’ve done a lot of “easing” over the years, but then I also do lessons and other practices in a rather on-and-off way. Anyway, I’m still a little terrified of trying to talk with my nephew’s fiance (especially as she’s from the South, and I’m doing North) but I’m determined to try. I know she is very kind and sweet, so I shouldn’t be concerned, but . . . Hope I don’t chicken out!
There you go - that’s ‘gollwng’ underlying the English!