Tiny questions with quick answers - continuing thread

I know of an upland simple dwelling - I would compare it to a very basic crofters cottage, or a bothy, on the baby slopes of Cader Idris. @henddraig, when you described a Hafod I thought that’s exactly it - it is a basic stone built structure, used (as I was told) by shepherds grazing sheep up there. But has a huge fireplace and is divided into two rooms, so sounds much more substantial than the idea of anything thrown up in a hurry. Is it still a Hafod, or is there a name for a more permanent dwelling that still was only used seasonally?

Historically they were used every summer, so I presume, ended up pretty solidly built!

I suspect the one that I know of will outlast my ‘proper’ house!

New question (I think). Today while driving to a family reunion a couple hours away, I did a few challenges in Level 2 (Northern). The question that arose should be very straightforward, but I haven’t found the answer. What is the difference (if there is one) between wrtha i and wrtha fi ? Are they completely interchangeable? Or is one “more correct” than the other? Or what? It seems easier (for me) to say the latter, but my grammar book(s) seem to only mention the former.

I think it’s “wrtha’ I” and “wrthaf I”. If it is, then the second is just the full version and, as with a lot of Welsh the f has been dropped (nesaf, cyntaf, etc.)

1 Like

I think @AnthonyCusack is bang on here but just for clarification I thought I’d check for my own mind and immediately wished I hadn’t. I’ve always said either wrtha i or wrthaf i whichever came out first but one of my dictionaries has wrtho i … so I’ll just carry on as I was.

1 Like

I truly think we need @garethrking, pretty please!!
I always though I = fi, but the ‘i’ at the end of fi gets left off.
Are you asking about using it after ‘dweud’ for ‘tell me’. @Sionned?

There’s no difference except that the f is often left out in speech, so I guess with the f is slightly more “formally correct”. Don;t worry about wrthaf / wrthof either.

There is a lot of coming and going in Welsh between a and o, for instance I naturally say mowr and houl for mawr (big) and haul (sun). And I only learnt in the last 5 years or so that the word wostod (always) is actually wastad (flat / unchanging) rather than a separate word.

See - we’re all learners here!

10 Likes

Is wrtho more West then? Like mowr and wostod?

Ah, now that is interesting and answers a puzzlement I ran across when we were there last month. A cashier in a grocery (I think) was saying Diolch yn fowr to everyone. It caught my ear so I paid attention to what she said to the next few of people in line (including us); it was definitely fowr. I wondered if it was a regional variation or just what, since I have always heard “fawr.” Don’t remember now just where in Wales we were at the time. Thanks, Iestyn!

2 Likes

I hear this a lot.

As @Iestyn says, there’s really no serious difference between wrtha i and wrtha fi - the form with fi is very very common particularly in southern areas, I think, while the form with i is perhaps the official colloquial ‘standard’, reflecting partly the situation in LW, as if anyone could care about that. :wink:

Use whichever you like. :slight_smile:

4 Likes

Any subtle difference between using

Dim ond - and - Does ond … ?

Diolch

bothy (scots for cottage) and bwthyn (cottage) may have similar brythonic celtic origins ?

2 Likes

Dim ond simply means ‘only’, and is a synonym for yn unig (but placed differently):

Dim ond pum punt sy gen i ar ôl
Pum punt yn unig sy gen i ar ôl
I’ve only got five quid left

Does ond… + VN usually means ‘One has only to…’:

Does ond edrych ychydig yn fwy manwl, ac mae’r holl beth yn dod yn gwbwl amlwg
You need only look a little closer, and the whole thing becomes completely clear.

6 Likes

Is “wchi” related to “ch’mod”?

Context: “tydi hi ddim yn cysgu, wchi.”

(It’s from Manon Steffan Ros’s “Blasu” - highly recommended book, thank you @sarapeacock)

3 Likes

Yeah, basically the same thing: 'ch’mod - ‘dach chi’n gwybod’
‘wchi’ - ‘wyddoch chi’ - ‘dach chi’n gwybod’

:slight_smile:

3 Likes

That seems to suggest that “does ond” is a fairly sophisticated usage (probably why I’d never heard of it… :slight_smile: ).

2 Likes

There’s a version of Calon Lan that uses does ond
“Does ond calon lan all ganu
Canu’r dydd a chanu’r nos…”

3 Likes

I’ve heard it suggested that’s a northern kind of tendency, but I’m not sure how much truth there is to that… :slight_smile:

It was Bryn singing, so adds weight to that one :slight_smile:

1 Like