Sorry @aran i must have misunderstood, I was referring to your answer to @lewie where you put
Level 2 and beyond - pay per lesson
and thought you meant that if you did 5 in a week, it would be five times the rate per lesson, although you wouldn’t have to pay for those lessons again if it was like buying a book.
There’s some good thinking going on here. There’s definitely a place for SSiW to offer something beyond level three. At the end of level 3 one is a remarkably competent speaker. What does one lack? My view is that it is:
- Reading and writing skills
- Vocabulary
- Ability to follow rapid spoken Welsh
I have found myself that vocabulary builds best by reading and writing, although it can usefully be done by spoken material but it’s difficult to offer the range of material that is available as written material.One soon needs to read anyway, so I would certainly support a “conversion course” from spoken to written Welsh for those who need it.
I have some doubts about the value of prizes as such. I think recognition is more important - recognising achievements, another hurdle overcome, another standard reached, another cause for personal satisfaction and even self-congratulation. How could we offer more recognition in this way?
As for rapidly spoken Welsh, SSiW is better than most, but one only has to go from listening to the SSiW courses to hearing Welsh spoken on the street in Caernarfon or Caerfyrddin to realise there is something of a gap to bridge. I know we try to do it with some of the material on SSiW but it isn’t quite like the real thing. A format I have found helpful in another context is “Easy German” where they interview folk in the street in everyday language with all its clips and quirks, then play back the video with subtitles. It’s a real situation, it’s entertaining and instructive at the same time. Is something like this this practicable for SSiW?
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@dafyddyfelin brilliant idea! I mentioned once the American visitors to Swansea who totally failed to understand a bus conductor who was speaking English, just with a local accent and fairly quickly! Naturally. Not speeded up to high pitched gabble hard for aged ears! Records of real people apeakng Cymraeg naturally are showing what we actually need to understand, not artificial stuff speeded up! I know from personal experience that many people need slow clear diction in order to understand English in an accent they are not used to. Practice at hearing the equivalent to the bus conductor in Cymraeg can help us to get on better than mother-tongue Welsh speakers in an area new to them!
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The conversation, between two native speakers with transcript after is great- especially if you pause and give us a chance to answer- than hear the actual answer.
The idea of Write Something In Welsh is good- maybe via twitter too? Ask. question in welsh and we can all try and answer.
I’d love a news digest in welsh- once a week? with simpler vocab and expression than bbc- which can be dead hard.
In general welsh learner media of any sort is fab.
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If I may jump in here…So i went through all the course material and it got me conversationally fluent (I’m using the term very loosely), but the issue I had will be what many face, once SSIW goes viral (which I hope it does)? I was lucky that I had a Welsh speaking housemate- but if I hadn’t, I would have progressed much slower. If I would to guess I would say that the course material got me to just about to Canolradd level. Self study got me up properly conversationally fluent.
I was lucky in that I had Welsh speaking house mate. Many here in Cardiff don’t have interaction with Welsh speakers. In fact for many of my co-workers I am the only Welsh speaker they know. As such there needs to be a way to get beyond the middling level and into more complex conversations. I was annoyed that there is no self study book for beyond Canolradd, and because I take Cymraeg seriously I’ve enrolled on an Uwch course- again not a privilege that everyone has can afford in terms of time and money. I know a lady who has missed 2/3 of her classes so far due to childcare.
I would like to see the course built for another level that really exercises sentence structures that native speakers use- A level 4. There needn’t be 25 lessons. Maybe a dozen or so which really pushes the learner with stuff you’d hear.
The other thing I’ve struggled with is listening. It’s not as strong as my speaking. Not sure why…Perhaps some extra listening (the speed ones) would be good. Is there a way of playing back things on S4C or Iplayer at 2x speed- this would solve that issue?
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If those who want to listen at high frequency double or triple speed can choose this themselves, then any like me, with ears finding the higher frequencies have escaped us, can listen at normal speed. Two birds killed with one stone!
When I hear the listening exercises, they don’t sound high pitched to me. They sound like voices in the normal range - the same as the lessons, just faster. I assumed the tracks are sped up and then pitch shifted back down? I’d be interested to know! 
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sorry - it is the new level 3 that seems to include speeded up material to my ears!
There is no accelerated material in the Level 3 challenges.
Are you aware of voices.com There are lots of professional voice actors on there. There are a number who will record in Welsh.
https://www.voices.com/talents/search?keyword=&category_id=&gender=&voice_age_id=&language_id=431&search=
It might be a way of getting high quality recordings. (The actors use their own equipment - high quality microphones, etc)
There is a variety of software that will speed up the recordings. This approach would start with a script. That might not offer the spontaneity that you are aiming for.
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Which might actually be an excellent fit for short stories - great link, diolch yn fawr iawn! 
Just one short business trope. Before working out your route, think about where you are trying to get to.
In other words, what do you and Iestyn (and other interested parties) think that the purpose of SaySomethingIn is?
I’m going to chuck in some suggestions. The answers may include more than one (or none). Some are deliberately off the mark/may sound flippant to get you thinking. None of them are are meant to be hurtful or negative. I hope that none of them come across that way.
Is it to turn the people of the world into polyglots?
Is it to be a language resource for minority languages?
To be a general language resource?
To be a language teaching resource based on modern understandings of language acquisition?
As a way to ensure that your families are fed?
Is it to build a community of enthusiastic language students?
Is it to convert the language schools of the world to a new way of teaching and/or put them out of business?
Do you want your staff and the ‘organisation’ to grow to 10’s or 100’s or do you want it to stay the same size?
Do you want to build a fellowship of friends?
My related comment would be that if you are hoping to be a media company, there is a lot of competition out there. What would be the special niche that would make people want your product (and put food on the table)? For example ‘all languages’ is very broad, so it is less clear what makes you special. ‘minority languages’ makes it clear that you are addressing a need not addressed by other resources. (This is not to suggest that you should chase after minority languages, just a suggestion of how this ‘niche’ idea works.)
Chances are that you have already discussed all of that, but I so want you to be a success that I feel it worth mentioning explicitly.
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Great input, thank you John - very much appreciated 
We want to help reverse language shift in Wales, and
We want to build a full course for every language we have left.
As far as the company goes, we want to set as many people as possible free to follow their passion for either of the previous two points…
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Hi Aran
A different take for something you already have…You can google top 10 Italian or Spanish learning podcasts or youtube channels and you will get different lists. There are so many people doing this. But not with Welsh. How many Welsh learning channels are there on Youtube? None. If you search learn Welsh on youtube the top ‘learning’ video (it’s just a guy listing word) has 70,000 views from the last 2 years which is about 3000 views/month. I don’t know if this is good or not. Regardless, the most viewed thing has nothing to do with learning Welsh and is some video on how to speak with a Welsh accent 
I think you should seriously consider putting course 1 on Youtube. It’s free anyway- so you’re not loosing any money, and at the end of the course you can direct learners to this site for courses 2,3 vocab etc. Trojan horse! When I searched for ‘Learn Welsh’, I almost gave up after the fourth page of results, until I persisted and found SSIW on the fifth page.
People such as myself use Youtube for everything. Whether it’s recipes, product reviews, how to fix things, how to learn things, rygbi highlights etc. The traffic it generates is far more than any stand alone site could dream of.
How likely is paying to learn Welsh through Cymraeg i Oedolion/welsh for adults going to appeal to someone on a council estate in Casnewydd. Unlikely? What about through youtube. Far more likely- it’s free and comes preloaded on to their smart phones.
I know that there is a sentimental aspect to having all the material in one place but I think it’s important to move with the times. This could single handedly have a huge affect on the number on users of SSIW material. This site is an incredible resource (I’m starting to lean Italian and I can’t find anything as good). It’s time to spread it to the masses.
Mihil
BTW (if anyone has any good podcast, video or book recommendations for Italian- message me)
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Like you I use YouTube for all sorts of things. I rarely subscribe to anything, and I suppose that although SSiW wouldn’t lose any money short term, they would lose the contact details of people interested in the course, and perhaps some continuity.
Easy way around that though… just put, say, half of course 1 on youtube, with directions to the website at the start/end of each lesson.
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Yup, agreed - need to build them into videos, which isn’t a flick of a switch, but very much on our to-do list…
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I m old school and need to have something in black and white to read as well as the audio. I do a weekly emailing for a few people of scans of a couple of short texts from books,magazines,poetry and record one of them. I ve found that a usable length for a sound file is about 3 minutes. There s free download -Potplayer - which enables the playback speed to be changed instantly without affecting the pitch of the voice.
Some of the people I mail too I skype with, others just use the material (or not) as they find useful. I ve been doing this for a few years and people keep in touch so it s working for them.
People need to talk out loud to themselves if no one else to get over their shyness(?) and also read to widen their vocabulary. But person to person chat is vital.
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Forgot to say that its much easier to get a grip on vocab when words are in a context - story/poem/song etc rather than just being included in an ad hoc conversation
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Agree with that in spades!!
That’s why I really liked the Cwrs Llanllawen that I did at Coleg Llysfasi some years ago. Everything was taught via stories and dialogues, so new vocabulary was learned in context. They weren’t random stories either. It was like a little soap opera and the story progressed from book to book.
Regarding the speed of normal speech, it’s not necessarily all that much faster than the lessons, it’s the contractions that confuse learners. We do it in English, of course, but in English we’re much more used to speaking a little more clearly and avoiding contractions when speaking to non-native speakers. Welsh speakers are not so used to doing this.
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