On this occasion It was in more of a non-work setting and I think that it she was a lot younger than me and was nervous of being put into the Welsh teacher role, even that wasn’t my intention.
However, good point regarding the supermarket chains, where the productivity of the check-out workers is monitored electronically (how long it takes them to serve you divided by the number of items that you have bought). So I suppose that in those places we need to just speak Welsh rather than chatting in Welsh (or even English).
Thanks for all your encouragements. In future, I plan to ask directly if people are happy to speak Welsh if they respond to me in English. It’s far more proactive than running home and grizzling about it online (though on this occasion, I’m glad I did - it’s a fascinating conversation!)
I’ll try to make Checkout Number Two the place I go to in my head when I need an incentive to stand my linguistic ground. It’s an imaginary place of course, since the poor woman wasn’t really sitting at checkout number two and has now become a mental amalgamation of lots of people (@peterallen, Helen and I were actually talking about different people, and I promise we’re not about to harass an unsuspecting worker to distraction.) At my psychological Checkout Number Two I always stand my ground and ask directly if she would mind speaking Welsh and she always does.
Just to prove that I’m over it and feeling more positive, here’s a limerick what I wrote yesterday in response to a challenge from my lovely Ffrindiaith, Huw (first line courtesy of Sian Cothi’s programme, last line amended by Huw to correct my meter - everyone needs a Ffrindiaith who doesn’t let them get away with anything…) Challenge number two was to share it, so here goes…
S’mae yw’r gair i ddefnyddio
Os na ateb, peidiwch anffyddio
Peidiwch cwyno neu sennu
Gwneud eich gwên yn serennu
Siwr, bydd s’mae nesa yn llwyddio!
Hope you all had a lovely and sociable Diwrnod Shwmae Su’mae!
Sorry, I’ve just realised that was not in the spirit of forum, because I didn’t provide a translation. It (hopefully) translates roughly as:
‘S’mae’ is the word to use
If there’s no answer, don’t lose faith.
Don’t complain or cast a slur
Make your smile sparkle
Surely, the next s’mae will be successful!
(If anyone wants to make that rhyme, please go ahead!)
some people cannot be bothered. They work in a customer service environment but ended up there because that’s the only job they could get at the time. They are not people orientated (god knows I’ve met PLENTY of library assistants that are like this, some being so rude that I’ve actually confronted them). They don’t give a hoot about you learning the languge, and therefore they will make zero effort. They spend much of their day being fake friendly with people when they absolutely must, so they have no energy to be enthusiastic about language learners.
some people are a******s. It’s not just to you - these people would behave like that to me too, and I’m a native speaker. They are small minded idiots with an attitude problem. American style customer sevice has not arrived in many rural areas of Wales. If they don’t like you, they will show it. If they’re not bothered about how your day went, they won’t ask.
Keep at it. There are lots of people who’d be willing to converse with you day to day, but just keep in mind that if they are really busy, then they might feel self conscious about slowing the queue down in order to speak to you. I was always happy to speak to learners, but sometimes I had no choice but to limit my conversation because of how busy we got. As a communicative person, I always used to make it obvious that I’d like to speak more, but I couldn’t, and they were always very friendly and understanding about that and my other duties. However, someone who isn’t really thinking might forget to do that.
@toffidil You need to make it more obvious than this. Just saying ‘thank you’ in Welsh will not get the message across. Try whole sentences. I lived in the south for 11 years, and there were many people who said good morning or thank you to me in Welsh, but could not manage more than that. They did it as a gesture of goodwill since they could see my Welsh speaker badge. I would stop the hints and be more direct.
Also, a petrol station might not be the best place for this! Try a museum or somewhere where the people there are employed to speak to people, to educate and be charming. It’s not a given though. Because lots of cultural jobs are temporary or part time, you might be speaking to someone English who is working there part time before they fully retire (this depends on where you live). The National Trust is a bit like this.
Not sure how many people are familiar with the term, ‘Man on the Clapham Omnibus’ used by the English (and Welsh) courts to determine who is an ordinary and reasonable person. No one knows who made up that phrase but, for the next 50 to 100 years, Welsh learners will be using the phrase ‘the woman at checkout No2’ (or possibly the ‘person’ or, in Welsh fashion to reduce everything by 50% just, ‘Checkout No2’) and associating it with Isata’s experience. Famous!
S’mae is the word still to use
when your getting the checkout two blues
don’t complain or insult
just smile at the cult
the pleasure’s not theirs to refuse
Best I can do without getting kicked off the forum
Even fewer people are probably familiar with the term ‘Wednesbury Unreasonbleness’ in law, but I’m sure it’s a shocking example of the North-South divide that people who live in Clapham are seen to be arbiters of common sense, while Wednesbury is a by-word for unreasonableness
Obviously, there are some people in various jobs that have this attitude, but I think it can be said that staff in this store are friendly and welcoming, in whichever language they are using. It’s also true, that some of the people work there ‘because it’s the only job they could get at the time’. Indeed, some of them are overqualified and not using all their skills, because they started working there after being made redundant from highly-skilled jobs at Laura Ashley, when the manufacturing plant was closed and moved elsewhere.
It was the same where I used to live, near Watford, where it seemed that everywhere I went, shop workers, bus drivers, driving instructors, office workers, etc, (of a certain age) had previously worked for Rolls Royce at Leavesden as technicians, test engineers, etc.
(Can you tell that I used to work doing skills research in the engineering industry?)
At the check-out you don’t get the opportunity to find out all this interesting background and discuss successive governments’ industrial policy in relation to manufacturing yn Gymraeg neu Saesneg. I know I don’t have the vocabulary!
They certainly are, and the woman on Checkout Number 2 is and was no exception.
As this is a subject that’s clearly raised a lot of emotion, it wouldn’t hurt to stress that my upset wasn’t about anybody being deliberately unkind to me, it was frustration at not being able to successfully engage using the language of my choice. There are often many things going on at the same time when people interact, it’s a many-layered thing, and I think we need to be careful not to make assumptions about people’s thought processes. Being assertive and direct about what you want helps, so that’s what I’ll try to be from now on.
… there are some things that I need to do which would improve the chances of people responding to me yn Gymraeg. Sometimes it depends on how confident I feel about trying to keep the conversation yn Cymraeg - I have good days and bad days.
I don’t tend to wear my Cymraeg/Dysgu Cymraeg badges - but that would be a start in making it more obvious up front that (on a good day - or on a bad day when I need a boost!) I want to speak Welsh.
I need to show my appreciation of the fact that they are helping me to practise my Cymraeg - and live a lot of my life through Cymraeg (and if the queue is being delayed a couple of seconds, perhaps comment to the person behind me how helpful they are being and what a joy it is to be able to shop yn Gymraeg).
The other thing that occurred to me, is that Isata and I have had similar experiences with two different check-out staff in the same store. As I mentioned, I used to do skills research for a training organisation. I suspect that there are not any staff throughout Wales that have been trained how to approach encounters with:
(1) enthusiastic learners at a range of levels
(2) other people in the queue who may be (very slightly) delayed or feel uncomfortable for whatever reason.
Could this training be something Menter Maldwyn could offer @nia.llywelyn or maybe something to add to the Cymdeithas yr Iaith Cymraeg package? I feel the need for a research project coming on
We are calling Checkout 2
We know you have a lot to do
But we will speak in CYMRAEG with you
As we pack our bags at the rate of knots
It’s the language of our country
Have you forgot?
Well yes, you’re totally right and I know what you’re saying is spot on, but I haven’t really mastered full sentences in English yet and to do that in Welsh, will require a hoody, fake beard and dark sunglasses in case I get recognised.
I think the disguise might be truly scary so maybe a Halloween outfit might be better. Will send a message on slack tomorrow if I can figure out how it works.
) Challenge number two was to share it, so here goes…
That’s it. I’m going to do my next shop not only in Welsh, but in rhyme! There might be quite a queue by the time I’ve finished…