Bad Accents

This might be silly of me, but it only recently occurred to me that we could have easily identifiable accents in other languagesā€¦ I do enjoy hearing accents in English, so I can see how it might be thoroughly interesting hearing accents in Welsh

And thank you! Diolch. :slight_smile:

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Hereā€™s the link to online Radio Cymru via TuneIn from where I tend to listen. BBC Radio Cymru. If you register on TuneIn for free you can also save your Radio stations to play them whenever you want. Their phone app is also great. So, you donā€™t need to bother with Radio Cymru website if you have problems with this.

Enjoy listening.

When I did my first Bootcamp it was pointed out to me that I that I was stressing my words in the wrong place - on the last syllable instead of the next to last one, making what I was saying unintelligible to welsh speakers. This being pointed out to me made a massive difference because in days people could understand what I was saying: even without a native accent.

ā€œThe rule in Welsh is that the accent, or stress, goes on the penult (the next-to-last syllable). There are a few exceptions to this general rule, to be noted in the lessons. A regular exception to this rule is that words ending in ā€œ-hauā€ are accented on the last syllable.ā€

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ā€¦ I have absolutely no idea what Iā€™m stressing. But thatā€™s helpful! Iā€™ll try to keep an eye on that and see whatā€™s coming out of my mouth.

Thank you, Tatjana! Iā€™ll check that out now. Very helpful!

As everyone else has said, accents are slippery things - and if you pay close attention, youā€™ll probably start to hear that itā€™s fairly common for the two speakers to pronounce things slightly differently from each other (thatā€™s certainly true for the northern version, anyway!)ā€¦ :sunny:

Just a very quick comment here - that sounds as though you are probably either repeating sessions more than you need to, or making dramatically heavy use of the pause button (or both!).

You might find it interesting to do lessons 6 to 10 on a ā€˜no repetitionsā€™ basis - particularly given that 6.1 and 6.2 are famously the worst lessons I wrote, and can lead to unnecessary pain and distress if you try to ā€˜get them rightā€™ā€¦ if you push on through to 10 and then revisit 6.1, you should find that it has magically become easier :sunny:

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Oooooooooo yes, believe him. Iā€™ve done repetition on that famous lessons 6 until Iā€™ve got a bit angry I canā€™t cope with them and went forward ALL THE WAY TO THE END OF COURSE. Then ā€¦ I did some pause inbetween all (I admit) and humbly returned afterwards to those 6-ies. The question arised in me: ā€œWhat in the name of God Iā€™ve struggled that much about?ā€ It was way easier that second time. (shhh, donā€™t tell anyone I went through the whole course 2 times afterwards ā€¦ :slight_smile: - hehe).

But siriously donā€™t repeat those Lessons 6. Theyā€™re equally hard in both versions but if you push through it pays off. Magic of @aran works (even for me, stubborn and perfectionist as I am).

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Eep - that sounds scary! But we can definitely give it a shotā€¦ and Iā€™m always willing to try new things.

I think, thus far, weā€™ve done each lesson about three timesā€¦ and we try to use what weā€™ve learnt as much as we can between times. Part of our problem is that we do Welsh daily for a few days and then get busy and donā€™t do it for a monthā€¦ which I realise isnā€™t the best way to learn stuff! My former clarinet teacher would be appalled that I didnā€™t learn better practice habits from her. :wink:

And youā€™re right, of course! We had noticed different pronunciations in the lessons tooā€¦ not so much at the beginning, but the further we go, the more I hear!

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The using what you can between times is brilliant, and will make a huge difference. :star2:

The triple repetition is a very common pattern, but what is actually happening there is that you are letting your need for conscious control overrule the learning system - your brain is telling you that you donā€™t know it all, so youā€™ve got to repeat the lesson. With experience and trust youā€™ll get to the point where you know that the repetition which builds the learning will come from the way in which we revisit every word and every structure as you keep on going through the course.

This runs counter to most traditional norms of learning, but itā€™s actually not a bad thing in and of itself.

The problems come from the way in which you respond to this kind of structure - for most people, the month gap (or however much it is) convinces them that they have to start again (from the beginning or near the beginning) - and that of course means they get stuck, and never progress significantly - their own little Sisyphean endeavourā€¦:wink:

But if you push on with new material each time you get going again, the first new session will feel painful, but after that youā€™ll be back up to speed.

Look at the difference.

If you do an hour a day for three days, repeating each session 3 times, and then a month off, and then repeat from near the beginning:

Step 1 - sessions 1 to 2. Month off. Step 2 - sessions 2 to 3. Month off. Step 3 - sessions 3 to 4. Month off. Step 4 - sessions 4 to 5. This is something like your current approach, right?

Now try:

An hour a day for three days, with no repetition, pushing on with new material after each month off:

Step 1 - sessions 1 to 5. Month off. Step 2 - sessions 6 to 10. Month off. Step 3 - sessions 11 to 15. Month off. Step 4 - sessions 16 to 20.

This second approach will feel much more scary - much more out of control - but it will get you to conversational ability massively faster. We regularly see people whoā€™ve done the 25 sessions of Course 1 (plus the vocabs) getting through a week with no Englishā€¦

Our record so far for a break, by the way, is 14 months - @louis did 10 sessions of Spanish in a day, then took 14 months off, then revisited the last of those sessions - and said that he got about 40% right straight off, but could sense that he would have been back up to 80/85% if heā€™d run through it a second time.

So you really donā€™t need to worry about the breaksā€¦ :sunny:

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As long as the pronunciation is right I donā€™t think it matters about the accent, If I visited Australia I wouldnā€™t put on an Australian accent, and I wouldnā€™t expect someone from another country visiting England to disguise their voice by trying to speak English with an English accent. The main thing is that the pronunciation is near enough to be understood.

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You might try finding the ā€œDal atiā€ or ā€œHwbā€ Welsh learner programme videos on Youtube. This may be slightly more accessible than Radio Cymru (although I would also recommend the latter when you feel ready for it). I believe there is no geo-restriction on BBC radio (as there is on TV and on S4C TV), and I find the easiest way of finding programmes is via the schedule:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radiocymru/programmes/schedules#on-now

Look down the schedule and choose a programme that has the ā€œplayā€ icon next to it and select that programme, e.g.

Then hit the ā€œplayā€ triangular icon on the programme page. Some programmes are also downloadable as podcasts, and if so, that should show up on the programme page.
However, there is also a list of them here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radiocymru

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This ^.

I was watching some random things on S4C yesterday and came across ā€œCalon,ā€ which was a short video where the producers asked the kids to say something they know about XYZ subject. This particular episode was ā€œPrif Weinidog.ā€

Anyway, there were a batch of three kids whom they interviewed together all wearing school uniforms and all clearly fluent speakers, and one of them did not trill her Rā€™s when she spoke. I have a horrible problem with rolling my Rā€™s, so hearing her speak naturally even without the perfect R made me feel A LOT better about my own struggles.

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It is an ongoing battle :wink: What @cap said, and keeping in mind that unless one takes elocution lessons to acquire the desired target accent (like Dylan Thomas was made to do, to get rid of his Welsh English accent and substitute it with a ā€˜cut-glassā€™ accent), it is very likely that traces of oneā€™s native accent will remain, and oneā€™s Welsh will be the more exotic for it!

I strongly support @mikeellwoodā€™s suggestion re the Radio Cymru podcasts, these are excellent for getting exposure to spoken Welsh

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Iā€™ve just completed the dreaded 6.1 South and actually thought it was alright. And the cat was rolling around purring while listening to me so I take it as a compliment! Is there worse to come in 6.2? I thought lesson 5 was the hardest one so far, I got so used to ā€œdwiā€ that ā€œI haveā€ and ā€œI needā€ really threw me and Iā€™d completely lost the plot by the end.

Going back to the original subject, my accent is pretty terrible at the moment (I canā€™t roll my Rs to save my life) but Iā€™m hoping itā€™ll come with time!

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Lessons 6.1 and 6.2 are both manageable on their own, but when they were one lesson (apparently) it was rather intense! (although I never got to experience it myself!).
But once you have completed the lessons 6 (including the bonus lesson), you will find getting through the following lessons a lot smoother.

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Sorry for the super slow reply! Life happened for a bit there.

I do see your point that Iā€™m rather overriding the learning system by repeating it too many timesā€¦ oops! That being said, itā€™s still an overwhelming notion to consider moving straight on with the next one after a single hearing, but Iā€™ll suck it up and give it a try. :smile:

And, while we do our breaks, we do always move on when we come back, instead of moving backwards, because I remember reading somewhere thatā€™s the right thing to do!

Now that is something that didnā€™t really occur to meā€¦ I would never expect someone who has just come here to sound Australian, so why should I manage to sound Welsh? Thank you for that contribution, itā€™s cleared my mind considerably!

Thank you very much for the YouTube suggestion and youā€™re positively an angel for helping me finally understand how to listen to Radio Cymru! Iā€™ve felt like such a technological dunce over that one!

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Iā€™m not sure why, but mentioning this famous Bonus Lesson 6 always brings smile to my face rather then a memory of how frustrated I was doing both (regular) lessons 6. :slight_smile:

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My boyfriend is a first language Welsh speaker and canā€™t roll his Rā€™s at all. Even on their own as a sound, he just canā€™t do it. I try to remember to do mine, but what tends to happen is that I roll them in words Iā€™ve learnt from SSiW and donā€™t in words Iā€™ve learnt from himā€¦ Hoping that as I worry less about getting the right words out Iā€™ll start picking up the pronunciation better!

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Thatā€™s the spirit! :star: :star2:

After all, what doesnā€™t kill you only makes you strongerā€¦:wink:

[Do tell us if it doesnā€™t kill youā€¦ :sunny: ]

:slight_smile: If it does he surely wonā€™t be able to tell us that. :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

I love that spirit though. :slight_smile:

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