Still working on getting a feel for when to use cael - I understand that this will get better with more exposure. However, I’m a bit confused about the following:
In the lesson, when we learn mynnu, we then have the sentences
I insist on getting an answer. – Dw i’n mynnu cael ateb.
I insist on knowing. – Dw i’n mynnu cael gwybod.
When I did the second sentence I skipped the “cael”, but I guess there is an implied “getting to know the answer”, so okay. But then later in the lesson, we have
I’ll insist on knowing what you said. - Wna i fynni gwybod beth wedaist ti.
No cael in this one, when I was expecting there to be. To me it’s the same meaning as the second sentence above. Is this just a case of “fine either way”, with or without cael, or am I missing something?
(Yes, I know by now, just roll with it, and I usually do, but this one is bugging me for some reason!)
Hmmm … I don’t remember those even if I made them, but at the first glance I’d say you stick “cael” in the sentence where you have some kind of subject (in this case “gwybod”) but I don’t see where you could stick “cael” in the sentence with “beth sedaist ti”? There 's no subject in the sentence, but rather deed (action - wedaist ti) which you actually can’t “get” …
This is very unexpertised observation from very “unproffessional” learner but it might be something in it though.
Siriously I don’t see the place to stick “cael” into the this sentence but you might brighten my knowledge with where you would put it.
Otherwise … @aran, @Iestyn or @garethrking maybe … (to tag some of experts so you could get your answer a bit faster …)
This is just about what feels right to a particular speaker - you can get away with using cael or not in either of those cases… The important thing for us is that you’re getting sensitised to hearing that usage of it…
Diolch, Aran! At this point in the course are learning alternative ways of saying the same thing, which is obviously good - but there are times when I’m not sure if what comes out if my mouth in response to a prompt is alternative or just plain wrong Good to know that this falls into the alternative category.
Well I would rather agree with you there @AnnaC - I would put cael in there, and for this reason: in that sentence, the person is actually asking the other one to impart the knowledge - the speaker doesn’t know yet what was said, and is asking to be informed. It’s a dynamic process here, and I think that is conveyed by the cael. I wouldn’t go to war over it, mind - but I sense that the version withoutcael is really (if subconsciously) modelled on the English.
When ‘know’ really means ‘be informed’, I would suggest that cael gwybod is more authentic.
Thank you for that explanation, @garethrking - really helpful. This clarifies for me what I was trying to get at when I was thinking about “an implied ‘getting to know the answer’”.
(Somewhat unrelated general comment - Just now, looking at cael gwybod made me think of an expression I’ve been picking up from watching Byw Celwydd - I think it’s rho wybod, “let me know”. (Now there’s a show that reinforces the Course 2 Vocab 5, with all the words like sylweddoli and bwriadu. I used to have trouble remembering them, but not so much anymore. I think the actors must say “dim sylw” in their sleep at this point )