Interesting question - I’m not aware of an awful lot of work specifically focusing on that - but we do know that while working memory is trainable for a specific task, there’s no evidence yet that those gains can be transferred to different working memory tasks… which might suggest that there isn’t a core network that is responsible for working memory in different contexts…
This is going to be psychologically important for you, Claudia - that is an unusually low score on that test, so I would imagine that in a lot of your life, you have built (consciously or unconsciously) workarounds to deal with the fact that your working memory isn’t strong…
With SSiW, you’ll need to do something similar - a combination of practical and psychological. First off, be generous to yourself with pause time - if, over time, you can cut down on how much you pause, then great - but for now, while it’s feeling tough, be kind to yourself.
Second, bear in mind that this doesn’t mean the system won’t work for you - it just means you will make more ‘mistakes’ than most people, and you will be more at risk of feeling frustrated. So when you feel bad, come on here and people will support you - and keep working through the lessons and the listening exercises, and try to find a conversation partner. If you keep giving your brain the right exposure to Welsh, your brain WILL process it - the working memory doesn’t interrupt that…
@aran Oh, mamma mia, yes, my weak working memory has been causing a lot of grief in my life. Honestly, your kind words and your understanding have brought me close to tears. In school, teachers often considered me less intelligent than others or downright lazy. The only subjects I was good at were sports…and languages. You’re so right, I needed longer to learn all the words, but have always been able to work creatively with everything that happen to stick in my holey brain. Yes, I’ve built many workarounds to deal with that fact that my working memory isn’t strong…acting as if I didn’t give a damn is just one of them (O daro…love the swear words!).
It’s very reassuring to know, that I’m allowed to pause. Again, you are so right, I need much longer than others to remember and come up with the words…but finally, I manage to produce a coherent answer in Welsh. Having to come up with an answer quickly, I go down fighting.
Diolch yn fawr iawn for this great explanation, your understanding and help, it means a lot to me!
This is my experience too, @AnnaC. I did all the old southern courses and then started on the new levels - currently about halfway through level 1. I’m really enjoying it but I’m glad I have the background of the courses to provide a bit of structure. Even so, I wonder whether that desire for structure might be something I should try to let go of - after all, nobody learns a language faster than children who are immersed in that language, and they learn by copying examples rather than by being taught about tenses etc (I’m guessing here - perhaps I’m wrong!). In that respect, the new levels seems maybe closer to how children learn them the old courses: get a feel for what sort of things you can say, then understand the grammar etc in retrospect. Having said that, the way children learn things is not necessarily the best way for adults to learn …
Edit: oops, I just realised that I am replying to an old post. Sorry to derail the current discussion.
I’m so dreadfully sorry to hear that - and, sadly, not in the least surprised - because there’s plenty of evidence that people with weak working memories suffer that kind of uninformed judgement, particularly at school. I’m so sorry you had to go through that.
In fact, as of course you know, people with weak working memories are often (perhaps usually) working much harder than their peers just to keep up with the way in which stuff is thrown at them in schools (almost always extremely poorly designed for people with weak working memories).
One important thing, though - try and get rid of that idea that you have ‘a holey brain’. What you have is a weak working memory - but your use of your second language shows that your long term memory (not to mention all your language processing) is absolutely normal, and from what you’ve said about the course so far, I’d strongly expect that your short term memory is fine, too.
Your ability with languages will hold true with this method - in fact, the ability/willingness to play around with a new language is one of the most regular factors in our most successful learners, and something we work very hard to force everyone into on our intensive courses.
So - if you keep being kind to yourself with the pauses, AND recognise that you’re meant to make a lot of mistakes with this approach, by the time you get to the end of Level 1 I would expect you to be starting to have some real fun…
[Edit: oh, one other point - as I said, there is evidence that working memory is trainable for specific tasks - so there are at least grounds to believe that the more you use SSiW, the more your working memory will adapt to this particular kind of challenge - so do keep on pushing yourself to minimise the pause button as much as possible - eventually, you might even be able to leave it behind altogether… :)]
Thank you so much for your kind and wise words, Aran, you’re a wonderful professor! You know, what I had to go through in school was nothing compared to others that were bullied and left out. But you are right…I was really interested in maths, physics and geometry, but just couldn’t keep up with the fast pace, in which everything had to be stuffed into our brains and understood. I so admired my friends that grasped something new just by hearing it a couple of times and doing a few exercises.
I noticed that after…say half of the Challenges, my brain gets more and more tired and my memory starts to fail me even worse. It’s just funny that I could really follow the Listening exercise of Challenge 5 (I didn’t understand every single word, but grasped the meaning of the whole sentence). There is something I wonder about for many years…is it possible to sort of learn “unconsciously”? Could it be that the new Welsh words sink into de depth of my brain, but cannot be willingly reached - at least not until I relax and
forget about my expectation to having to slog away like a madman?
Thank you so much for believing in my ability to improve. I’m bracing myself for Challenge 5 now (with a huge cup of coff…tea, of course), and I will do exactly as you told me and push myself to minimise the pause button!
Thank you so much for your help and encouragement. I don’t take it for granted at all, it’s very, very rare and special!
This is not related to language learning but … I am a philosophy lecturer and for many years have been reading difficult-to-understand texts. I noticed the following quite early on: I can read a philosophy article, feel as if I have not understood any of it (As in: if I ask myself to summarise what I just read, I couldn’t do it), then re-read it after a break and find that I understand it, as if by magic. I tell my students to read difficult texts like this: read it at normal speed (i.e. the speed at which you’d read an undemanding novel) without worrying about trying to understand it, then take a break and read it again, at which point you’ll find that you magically understand it much better. I conclude from this that it is definitely possible to understand/learn without feeling like you’re understanding/learning - I have built a career on it!
@rebecca Wow, that sounds absolutely fascinating! I read somewhere that our conscious mind was just the summit of the iceberg and that so much more lay below. So, it’s true what wise people say…one needs to trust in life…trust in oneself…trust that we can learn and comprehend, without having to know how…or as you put it so beautifully, without feeling like understanding/learning. It seems that getting tense, fearful and overly eager to learn just closes this inner door to comprehension and inhibits the magic to happen…
I think most learning is a combination of exposure and consolidation - so I think most learning is unconscious - and that we only become conscious of it, in general, once we have more or less finished the learning process…
If you find that you get tired by half way through a Challenge, take a break - there’s no rule that you have to eat them all in one sitting… You may find that over time, your tolerance levels increase, and you become capable of continuing for longer… but for now, I would recommend that you stop when you get tired…
@Claudia_Beryan I wanted to quote “there’s no rule that you have to eat them at one sitting” but neither my arthritic fingers nor my new stylus will let me Quote on my iPad! However, as well as arthritis my 75 years bring other problems and doing any of the challenges as long as 25 minutes all at once is not on! So bite sized lumps is my way! It can work even with an aged brain!
@henddraig I’m so sorry to hear that your fingers are arthritic, henddraig, I hope you’re not in pain. Sending lots and lots of healing vibes your way.
As rebecca said, in the pauses we make between learning sessions, true magic can happen!
@aran Yesterday night, while doing Challenge 5, I got tired in the middle…got up, jogged to the kitchen and grabbed some chocolate…jogged back…and could continue with new energy.
It’s exactly the way you said it would be, Aran - I finished Challenge 5 yesterday and am revising Challenge 2 right now. I hardly ever need to hit the pause button…
And now that you’ve had that experience, it will give you extra strength for the journey ahead - because you know that even when you feel as though it’s all out of control, the learning is happening…
Believe me, I’m absolutely astonished and happy that so much of the content of the first 5 Challenges has actually stayed in my brain…and that I can reach it! Thank you so much for your help and support, Aran!
It shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that what I said about your short term and your long term memory is right - it was only your working memory that got you given a hard time at school… so you ought to feel hugely confident in your own ability to learn (because you could take the fundamentals of this approach and apply them to any kind of material you want to learn)…
Yes, you are absolutely right! Unfortunately in school, there is hardly a chance to take a bit more time to learn and let the content dropping anchor in the brain.
Yes, that’s true…knowing that the learning is happening, despite me feeling overwhelmed and out of control sometimes, gives me a lot of confidence…actually, it’s a huge relieve to know! Now, I know what to do, in order to remedy me weak working memory - keep calm, breathe deeply and take some extra time to revise, reflect and remember.
You’ve invented something really precious and great, Aran. Your method is awesome, challenging and fun…and it really and truly works!
You know, what I had to go through in school was nothing compared to others that were bullied and left out. But you are right…I was really interested in maths, physics and geometry, but just couldn’t keep up with the fast pace, in which everything had to be stuffed into our brains and understood. I so admired my friends that grasped something new just by hearing it a couple of times and doing a few exercises.
I read somewhere that our conscious mind was just the summit of the iceberg and that so much more lay below. So, it’s true what wise people say…one needs to trust in life…trust in oneself…trust that we can learn and comprehend, without having to know how…or as you put it so beautifully, without feeling like understanding/learning. It seems that getting tense, fearful and overly eager to learn just closes this inner door to comprehension and inhibits the magic to happen…
