Genealogy Terms?

Welsh General / Questions
#1

Shwmae Pawb! I don’t come on the forum often–mainly because I’m too damned busy all the time! But I need some help! One of my other hobbies is genealogy (which I got particularly obsessed with after adding DNA testing to my research about a year ago!)

The issue is, I’m not sure of my genealogy vocabulary yn y Gymraeg! So I’m here seeking some guidance! I’ve got a few words below I’m pretty sure of, a couple I’m not sure of, a couple I have no idea about!

Basic terms:

genealogy: achyddiaeth

genes: genyn/genynnau

ancestors: cyndeidiau/hynafiaid—are both used? Is one more common?

descendant/s: disgynydd/disgynyddion

family history: hanes teulu

family tree: coeden deulu

branch: cangen

Family relationships—this is where I get a bit stuck! On Ancestry for example, genetic matches are categorized as below:

close family (They mean mom/dad/sisters/brothers/aunts/uncles /grandmothers/grandfathers) : teulu clos? teulu agos?

1st cousin: cefnder/cyfnither

2nd cousin: cyfyrder/cyfyrderes–I found this in a book I happened to be reading. Is this used? CAN you say “ail cefnder” as one would in English?

3rd, 4th cousin and so forth—are there special words for these as well? Or can you/do you say “trydydd cefnder” and so on?

distant cousin: “cefnder bell”? Is that right? Sounds like a cousin that just lives far away!

Then there are the generations:

great-grandmother/father: hen nain / hen daid

That’s manageable, but what if I’m talking about my 8th great-grandfather, must I say hen hen hen hen hen hen hen hen taid? Or can I say “wythfed hen daid”?

Last question—how do you express “removed” as in “1x removed” / “3x removed” and so on? “Unwaith ei dynnu” I’ve heard—is that correct?

Thanks all for any advice!

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#2

Hello old friend! Great to see you on the forum again. :smiley: Here are a few to get you started, if I think of more then I shall let you know. x

to genealogize. - hel achau

close family - teulu agosaf/perthnasau agosaf

third cousin - caifn (ceifnaint), ceifn (ceifnaint)

fourth cousin - gorchaifn (gorcheifnaint)

fifth cousin - gorchawm (gorchawon)

first cousin once removed - (one’s cousin’s child): plentyn eich cefnder/plant eich cefnder/plentyn eich cyfnither/plant eich cyfnither gorchawm (gorchawon)

I would say that wythfed hen daid and so on are perfectly acceptable.

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#3

Haia Catrin! :hugs:

Diolch am 'ny! :grinning: But wow–you really have separate words for 3rd cousin, 4th cousin, 5th cousin…!! :flushed: I have some studying to do!! :wink:

And for “removed”, that “wedi ei dynnu” is just wrong? I recently found my 4th cousin 1x removed–so it has to be “plentyn fy ngorchaifn”?

At least I can say wythfed hen daid! :sweat_smile:

Diolch eto!!

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#4

Ond ti’n plentyn ei gorchaifn hi? Ydy hynna’n wir? Dwi’n drysu yn hawdd. :upside_down_face:

#5

O, na! Dw i’n plentyn ei gorchaifn hi (fy mam) ond dydy hi DDIM plentyn fy ngorchaifn!! :grimacing: Dydy hynny ddim yn gweithio!!

Catrin! Helpa!! :upside_down_face:

Yn saesneg, mae “removed” yn mynd i lawr neu i fyny cenedlaethau!! Yn y gymraeg, ydy o’n mynd dim ond i lawr??

#6

I think my head is about to explode… :rofl:

I’m a little out of my depth here I’m afraid. I don’t really use these terms (never felt the need to) but always knew they existed. In everyday conversation, we just use cefnder or cyfnither no latter which branch of the family tree they were on… you see, as everyone is related to everyone in Wales, there’s a standard we use - if they’re clearly not your grandparent/parent/child/sibling, then they’re some kind of cousin and if in doubt they’re probably and aunt or an uncle… :laughing:

Maybe @garethrking can help?

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#7

This is what I’ve found in Geiriadur Yr Academi

under removed

first cousin once ~ , (i) (= child of one’s cousin): plentyn (plant) eich cefnder/cyfnither; (ii) (= cousin of parent): cefnder (cefndryd) ( m ) eich tad/mam, cyfnither(-od) ( f ) eich tad/mam; first cousin twice ~ , (i) (= grandchildren of one’s cousin) ; ŵyr (wyrion) ( m ) eich cefnder/cyfnither, ŵyres (wyresau) ( f ) eich cefnder/cyfnither; (ii) (= cousin of grandparent) N: cefnder ( m )/cyfnither ( f ) eich taid/nain, S: cefnder/cyfnither eich tad cu/mam gu.

and under remove

he’s my cousin at two removes (i.e. twice removed)
mae’n gefnder imi o fewn dwy ach, **
mae’n fab cyfyrder imi

she’s my cousin at two removes (i.e. twice removed)
mae’n gyfnither imi o fewn dwy ach,**
mae’n ŵyres i’m cefnder,
mae’n ŵyres i’m cyfnither

** What might help here, is that ach here means ‘degrees of kinship’, so presumably for 3x, 4x, 5x etc you could change ‘dwy’ to 'tair/pedair/pump etc.

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#8

Oh this is so helpful! Thank you!! :+1:

Have to print it out now and study it!! :smile:

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#9

Got it! How wonderfully simple! A cousin is a cousin is a cousin! :hugs:

#10

Yeah, that is really helpful. Nice one Siaron, I didn’t look under "remove.

We already use that word so should have clicked :thinking: …

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#11

I have nothing to add to Catrin’s excellent analysis. :slight_smile:

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