Identification sentence or not

Sorting out the right way to say a sentence is quite tricky isn’t it! Special structures needed to be picked out first for things which feel initially to be very similar eg I must vs I want vs I need vs I am. I guess that’s a different language for you, ha, ha. Identification sentences - pinning them down - is proving challenging for me… could I check whether different forms are equally valid. Eg if you wanted to say Margaret is a lawyer could you say Mae Margaret yn gyfreithwraig or Gyfreithwraig yw’r Margaret? Are they equally valid?

Thanks

Rich

yes Rich, they are equally valid. The only difference is on emphasis - the first is a straight statement: Margaret is a solicitor. In the second you would be emphasising the fact that she is a solicitor (because solicitor has been put first - cyfreithwraig yw Margaret): Maragret is a solicitor .

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Although I personally find the grammar behind all this fascinating, and have read and re-read the appropriate bits in various grammar books many times, over time, I suspect that really, the only way to (eventually) get this right is to be exposed to so much Welsh that after a while one just get the feel for it.

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Yes. The trick is to get to the point where you are thinking (of what you are going to say) in the language you are speaking, rather than translating on the fly, so that the differences / complexities between languages simply don’t come into it.

So it’s only an initial phase where you are building up the pieces in the jigsaw…and understanding which can go where…together… or not together. I’m sure Aran would say it’s a natural process, ha, ha.

I live in Yorkshire - so I actually haven’t had a conversation yet since starting SSIW - hoping to get to the January gathering in Leeds which I’ve seen on the forum as there is no December meet. That will be interesting. I’m on challenge 20 now…and feeling very pleased with that (!) - not too much drama along the way - and it’s probably about that time I guess that you think ‘now, I know this but how would I say that’…all part of the process.

Ssiw and the answers from the forum have been a huge help. Thank you all.

Rich

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Da iawn, Rich - it looks like you’ve got exactly the right attitude to do really well with SSiW. The trick is to learn as much as you can (ie loads of challenges), and try to make up your own sentences whenever you can, ie between challenges. Then, when you meet some Welsh speakers - hopefully in Leeds in January! - you’ll have a sort of default level of stuff you can say. If it turns out that you’ve got some things a bit wrong, or get the wrong emphases or even have some words that you’ve confused between different meanings, it doesn’t matter - the best way to sort those out is to make plenty of mistakes in a real life conversation.

I always say to bwtcampers that the ones who get the most out of bwtcamp are the ones who make the most linguistic mistakes. If you speak lots of really bad Welsh, you’ll start speaking good Welsh really quickly. On the other hand, if you decide to wait until you’re sure that you’ve got the exact right translations for want and need and have to and must, becoming a confident Welsh speaker will be a long and frustrating process.

If you are already at challenge 20, then you are definitely on the right course, so make sure you get over to Leeds and say loads of wrong stuff as soon as you can!

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Hi Iestyn,

Thanks for the words of encouragement- what you you say sounds good because making mistakes is one of my strong points!

I was due to be in Porthmadog last weekend but unfortunately it had to be cancelled due to the snow. I was hoping to grab a word with someone (but a bit nervous of the different words/ dialect) although I would probably have been fortunate to have stumbled on more than a few words I guess but you never know do you!

I will certainly get over to Leeds and I will have to get my thinking cap on over Xmas on how to get more exposure - of course ideas and opportunities may come out of Leeds meeting.

Thank you for your support.

Rich

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Rich, if you’re ever in Caernarfon, you’re very welcome to grab a word with me :slight_smile:

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Hi Siaron,

That would be great! Actually engineering some trips over to Wales and perhaps popping to one of the meetings is a relatively sensible option. I might have to have a little listen to the north Walean challenges to understand your flavour of the lingo though, ha, ha! :slight_smile:

Thanks

Rich

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I’ll try to remember to throw more hwntw in here and there - having learnt in various places over the years, my Welsh is a bit ‘brith’ anyway! :wink:

It’s worth doing the northern listening practices rather than the full course - that will get you used to hearing and understanding some of the variations, and stand you in good stead for a trip to <<gulp!>> Northern Climes </echo machine>

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Yes, of course! - that’s a better idea, ha, ha. I’ll give it a go.

Very interesting that firstly north and south versions are more similar than I was expecting - not so interesting to you I suppose as you already know that - ha, ha -but good news #1 for me. Also some of the words I learnt at school come into play eg eisiau for want and mwynhau, to enjoy, so good news #2 - I know some of the differences already, who’d have thought it.

I was brought up in Aberhonddu/ Brecon so goodness knows what combination I learned! I guess if there are options at school they go for either one or the other - or they did when I was learning.

Funnily enough these words were the hardest to un-program when I was doing the southern flavour…surprising that I hadn’t managed to kill off those ‘Liddl grey cells’!..but it seems that if you are going to speak to someone and they may use either you basically need to know both at some point, so job done on that!

No sign of the ‘ry’ from the ‘Rydw i’n hoffi coffi’ though!

I think all of the 'ry’s have got lost down the back of the sofa as they are nowhere to be seen!

None of this means that I’ll understand a word of course in a real conversation …(!)…

Rich :slight_smile:

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Best place for them I reckon… :wink:

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