Slightly off-topic, but I’m sure many (if not most) people here are interested in the wider aspects of Celtic and Celtic-related culture, and the Picts have always been a rather interesting mystery, as they left behind no written records (or none that has been so far identified).
It seems that archaeology is discovering more and more about them, including the fact that they almost certainly produced vellum, and vellum implies writing…
When i have watched all the rugby, I’ll,follow the link, The Picts, as far as I know, were basically the same as us just further North!
Well, I think for a long time, there was speculation about whether they spoke a Celtic language, or something completely unrelated. Well, it is still not known for sure, but the exciting thing is that it is almost certain that they did actually write things down. They wouldn’t have produced vellum for nothing. However, since the context of this was probably monastic communities, it’s likely that if any writing is found, it will be in Latin (although with luck, there might be some Pictish glosses added by scribes).
I think your comment above is basically right, from what I heard, but have a listen when you can, and see what you think. They were the least Romanised of the Britons, and therefore regarded by the Romans as the most “savage”.However, it’s clear that they had a sophisticated culture, and became Christianised. It seems likely that Pictish would have become supplanted by Gaelic.
Have you seen the TV Programmes about “Britain’s Ancient Capital” - Orkney, or rather the Ness of Brodgar thereon! Basically, advanced buildings, henges etc. older by far than those further south. So maybe the Picts were the first and most developed Britains, their advances creeping southward!!!?? 
I like the fact that the Celtic languages all lost original initial p- - so, for example, Irish athair ‘father’ corresponds to Latin pater. Which means that I read somewhere that the Orkneys get their name from something to do with pigs: if they were Latin they’d be the Porcades, so I always think of them as the Porkneys 
I’ll have to try and listen to this. We’re holding a Celtic-Esperanto conference in Aberystwyth in April next year and one of the speakers is going to talk about “the mysterious Picts”. If I listen to this I can prepare some questions in advance!
Hope it’s helpful Dee. I think the podcast version of this programme remains online indefinitely (unlike most programmes on iPlayer and a lot of other BBC podcasts), so you can listen in your own time.
He’s not in that programme, but Guto Rhys is an expert in Celtic languages and has done some excellent papers on Pictish (and the rest!). Lots of his work is on the Academia site, but just googling him will lead you to a lot (plenty of prep for more questions!)
So if the Picts spoke a Celtic language, they would have called themselves the Icts?
Oh diolch yn fawr! Finally listened! Feeling of 'yes! Yes ! Yes!" Ice retreats. People follow,game. Then land bridge eventally overcome by sea. People this side are then islanders, even if few of them knew it at once. Boats got built and some were seaworthy enough to cross to and fro to another island or a large land mass. Trade happened and some to and fro of people. Some may have crossed the Atlantic! People developed farming, towns etc. Some became powerful. Empires! But the settlement on the Ness of Brodgar predates much of Ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome.
Stonehenge came nearly 2,000 years later! We cannot know the language that these people spoke or what they called themselves. I’d hazard a guess that it meant ‘talk’ and ‘people’, Itsybitsy bit of evidence that aber meant river mouth and avon meant river. Writing only existed as signs, probably signifying, ‘my bit’!
Invaders came. The Romans wanted to grab the whole of what they called ‘Britannia’. As they fought their way north they called rheir opponents ‘British’ or by the local name for that dun, tribe or whatever.
We know, as it got colder it was less inviting to actual Romans from Rome. Eventually Hadrian ordered a wall and said, 'We have conquered Britannia! North of here is Caledonia!" That was the local name of the territory just north. Later a bit of to and fro happened between that wall and the Antonine Wall, but Rome was losing interest in the frozen north.
When the Angles, Saxons, .Jutes etc invaded from the east and south, the Irish came from the west and settled in The Dalriada, where I live.
who were the Picts? They were the British. Because they tattooed their skin to differeniate them from the conquered British in Roman territory, the Romans called them ‘painted people.’ -Picts. It was not a word they used. They were closely related to the Celtic Irish of the Dalriada, but lived further north and east. Eventually they were conquered by the Vikiings and ‘persuaded’ to speak Norse. They are still here In mainly north and east Scotland. My friend from Dundee is probably one oftem!
It is lovely when all one has worked out fits perfectly with what the experts say!
I read (or skimmed) one of the Guto Rhys papers I found online. There was a lot of specialised linguistic stuff that was way over my head, but what I understood was fascinating. He describes the history of scholarship concerning the Picts (and early Scotland generally), and talks about the various competing theories over the years. There now seems to be more or less a consensus that the people who were known by others as Picts were almost certainly (at one time) speaking some form of Brittonic (or Brythonic) , but with much less influence from Latin than the forms of Brittonic spoken to the south and south-west.
Exactly! And I have just been watching an S4C programme about Hywel Dda which I tecorded and amreminded that the court of the King of Brecon was on an artificial island, a crannog and here in West and North Scotland, there are a lot of those. Brought by the Irish? To Brecon in 900AD? More likely indigenous. Part of shared culture!
@henddraig I think you might enjoy this programme (or have already seen it, as it first went out in 2014 apparently:
In 2 parts, apparently. Not sure when the next part is on.
When I have time! We have had no electricity from 9 am to 4.30pm, Essential work, no idea why they could not do it in summer!
Oh [quote=“mikeellwood, post:14, topic:10012”]
In 2 parts,
[/quote]
Oh, I do hope this stays available. I didn’t hold much hope in a Tory MP, Which just shows how stupid I am. He totally understands what Prydain was like, with ideas spreading patchily and slowly. We only really know what we can pick up from the oldest bards and storiwr, but equal rights for, or at least respect for women, a value on the spoken word… culture, and an appreciation of the best design for a nice warm home in a cold climate! (I was always so sorry for local women who married ex-legionaries and were expected to live in square, stone houses, planned to be cool in hot weather and difficult to heat!) Will listen to more when I can!
More - finally noticed I was viewing and not on radio. Found it on iplayer and now have it on my skybox for as long as I need it.
NOTE @mikeellwood Episode 2 is on TONIGHT - HENO at 8 p.m.!!!
Still episode 1… He seems tomstill admire the Romans like a good graduate of the English school system. Hadrian did not actually say, “Oh here is somewhere we could nnot conquer!” He or his advisers said, “we have conquered Brittania! North of this wall is an icy waste inhabited only by wild natives who paint themselves and wild animals. it is called Caledonia and is no use to Rome!”
I am sure Alistair Campbell learned much from him!
Maybe Caledonia was a “known unknown”. (I know that wasn’t said by A.C. )