SSi Forum

Mutations


#1

S’mae Pawb,
Dwi Colin a dwi bwi yn Cinderford, Lloegr. Dwi di bod yn dysgu Cymraeg evo SSIW am tua blwyddyn a dwi di mwynhau yn fawr iawn. Byddai’n siarad Saesneg rŵan… Phew hope that makes sense! Well having started with course 1 and 2, I have now completed level 1 and am about to commence challenge 5 of level 2. This is a great course but I still struggle with mutations and softening. Is this a common dilemna? And if I am out in the big wide (Welsh speaking world) will native speakers not mind too much?

Hwyl am nawr!
Colin


#2

Don’t worry too much, things will come naturally in due course.

Would you be interested in joining us on the second Saturday of each month in the Lime Tree, St Mary Street, Chepstow? We meet at 10.30 until 12.00 on table 19.


#3

I’m willing to bet that you’re finding mutations significantly easier than most people who’ve been studying Welsh for as long as you have ;). Mutations are often considered the hardest bit of Welsh - the trick is to just not worry so much about them; you’ll get them wrong, but so long as you don’t get too stressed about it, you’ll just gradually get used to them. I mean, native speakers get them wrong from time to time too, so nobody is going to be too upset if you mess up from time to time. Chances are, they won’t even notice, and if they do they’ll probably think you’re just speaking a slightly different dialect to them.


#4

It will only matter to pendants and poetry judges. They are few and far between, fortunately.


#5

I hate to be pedantic but … :wink::blush:
(tongue-in-cheek look towards the irony, sorry) :blush:


#6

Depending on what type of mistake you make I bet no-one will even notice, and I bet the conversation wouldn’t even miss a beat. Put it to the back of your mind and carry on as you were. :blush:


#7

I have been genuinely surprised how it is possible to pick up the rules without knowing what the rules are using the SSIW method.


#8

Completely agree with you. There have been a few occasions where I have been speaking Welsh and the mutation has just come out without me thinking about it. It just feels like the correct thing to say (hard to explain). So yes, I think I’d agree with everyone else and say don’t worry about it and try not to over think it.

Pob lwc Colin!


#9

As you’re from Cinderford, I just had to say hi (and “Ow bist?”) - I have connections with Coleford!

I still get some mutations wrong, but I think the tendency is for us to notice the occasional ones we get wrong and not realise just how many we get right without even thinking about them.

As the others have said - don’t let it worry you too much, it is a common dilemma and native speakers don’t seem to mind. In fact, I have come across native speakers who say they aren’t 100% confident they get them right!


#10

It’s how mamiaith, mother tongue speakers learn it. Just what feels right. Welsh language learners in classic classes, Welsh language teachers, and people who have learned grammar know the rules. Lots of other people speak Welsh, ‘correctly’ without knowing the rules.


#11

You could try this…

:D:D:D:D


#12

Hello Colin

Sorry I made a mistake

The SSiW group meet in the Lime Tree, Chepstow the FOURTH Saturday of each month.


#13

I, the owner of a tattoo, which may surprise some of you, think I would prefer to make the mistakes, or learn the rules. Yes, they are confusing, but after a while you do get to know how they work.
Then there is a different but related problem of remembering which words and situations CAUSE the mutations. That, for me, is the hard bit, and no tattoo will solve that problem for me.


#14

Good job Welsh hasn’t had the equivalent of the German Rechschreibungsreform … yet. :slight_smile:

(spelling reform).


#15

I was quite bewildered when I went to my first ‘Gloywi Iaith’ lesson last year (grammar for fluent speakers), the first ‘proper’ Welsh class I’d ever attended, to find out that other people who had learned the language had all sorts of mnemonics for remembering the mutations (“TCP, Blinking Good Disinfectant” and the like). I was actually quite shocked that they didn’t just know them - the thought of actually having to sit down and learn them was rather odd to me!


#16

The first time it happened I genuinely though the speaker was having a stroke.

Normal conversation in Welsh, and then out of nowhere - baked beans, fish fingers, sausage rolls, chaps with coals, my old mother says you.are.it. - and then back into Welsh again


#17

Wait.

So not actually fluent then? How does that work?

Fluent is getting stuff wrong but just ploughing on, not stopping every other word to do a mental lookup of a grammar table.

Isn’t it :question:


#18

Sorry if I misled - these people were quite fluent in the way that I consider myself fluent, in the way you describe (making mistakes but ploughing on). But as this was a grammar class, so we had written exercises, and in those the aim was getting the treigladau right - which entailed some amount of recitation of mnemonics.


#19

Shwmae Siaron,
Actually dwi’n dod o Coventry (I’m a Coventry boy) but have lived in the forest for some time now. Thank you for your advice.
Diolch yn fawr!

Colin


#20

Shwmae Llanddinol,

This sounds like an excellent idea. I’d be very interested in coming along. Can you let me know any more - size of group, etc. Perhaps i can join you on the 4th Saturday in May?

Diolch yn fawr,
Hwyl am y tro!