Spoiler Alert! Sgwrs 17 (Advanced Content)

#11

Have you considered just skipping the transcript, then? And going listen->read translation->listen? :slight_smile:

#12

Oh I would love that! :grin:

I just somehow thought reading the transcript was a necessary step - or in other words, that skipping it would be worse for the whole process, rather than figuring out a way to make it vaguely acceptable!

#13

I think you get the best possible input overall by doing all the steps - but if there’s one of them that you’re hating, it’s always better to skip and enjoy… :slight_smile:

#14

Hi @Catriona,

I had a frustrating week on the Sgwrs this week too if its any consolation - not much I imagine :smile: - I got the general idea, mostly, on first listen but found it harder to understand this week. I got less of it, less well. I think there were lots of long sentences with connected phrases and the odd, killer word I didn’t understand. I didn’t know the Welsh word for Breton, so the whole ‘area of interest’ in the Sgwrs this week was foggy.

Ah well. That is the way it goes I suppose. Unlike previous weeks I didn’t find the translation easy either :confused: - again I think it is the conjoined sentences and subclauses because whilst there was a few words I didn’t understand, I found myslef staring at sentences and clauses which I knew all the words for (!) trying to figure out what they must mean…I haven’t done that for a while :frowning: .

When I look back at the translation now, I can’t see what the problem was (but there are many things that have gone like this - hard to figure out, then seem obvious) but I think there are so many variables - for example I could only do the translation in bits and pieces this week…and that can’t help.

I have found that speaking and reading, slightly strangely, each seem to have a fairly independent rate of progress. It sounds a bit like you are finding the same. Presumably, at some point, it all comes together - actually I think reading has already really helped my translation.

I am hoping that with a chance to re-listen I will (at least) get the lift in understanding of previous weeks. This makes everything seem worthwhile :smile:. I hoping that this aspect is sort of a groundswell and reflects underlying progress.

So: Level of understanding on first pass? Poor - Ease of translation? Poor - Understanding on second pass? We’ll see!

Rich :crazy_face:

#15

I can hear you sounding a bit dispirited here - but actually, you’ve just uncovered some GOLD - because the low level of understanding means that this has got a high amount of new stuff for you - and that means multiple runs through this (on the usual pattern) are going to do MORE to improve your Welsh than would be the case with sgyrsiau that you found easier… :slight_smile:

#16

Yes - I can see that focusing on some remaining things which have shown themselves to be problematic, has got to be very beneficial.

It’s all good - if you find it easy, it’s good, if you find it hard, it’s also good (possibly even better!)

Rich :smile:

#17

Can I just say that trying out cross-referencing the transcript with the translation this week feels incredibly useful and I really feel like I understand a whole lot more of the conversation / words / phrases this time by doing that - I really hope it actually is as useful as it feels, and isn’t just another nice feeling which slows down the learning process.

#18

As long as you’re doing it on the model of ‘cold listen->whatever you do with transcript/translation->primed listen’, you’re gold… :slight_smile:

#19

I’m just listening and hoping to pick up stuff by osmosis at the moment…Once my upcoming exam is done in a couple weeks I may start listening with the transcript/translation etc.

#20

PS that was a really interesting conversation (from the bits that I understood!) Diolch Beca!

#21

That’s seriously great to hear - where can I cash myself in?! :laughing:

#22

For those on the South Wales course - this week’s Sgwrs is with a lady from Cardigan :blush:

#23

Ooo. That will be interesting.

#24

…and so with a bit of work and a few listens I can understand what is said very well…which is of course very pleasing and constitutes an extraordinary amount of progress in a short amount of time.

It is only when you are thinking about something beyond, that you forget the progress made (or at least it is easy to forget).

I find there are lots of ‘take aways’ on these Sgwrs which indicates (of course) that I am still’work in progress’…but that is ok!

This week I found out many new things in the first couple of paragraphs:

dwm im - means I don’t know (I did track down a vague recollection of the many different, very shortened versions of ‘I don’t know’ - in Unit 28 of @garethrking 's Intermediate Welsh…which made an interesting re-read at this point)

bellach ddim yn bod - now doesn’t exist…yup ok…makes sense…

deutha fi…represents another alternative stem for dweud…

There were inevitably quite a few individual words I didn’t know too - difeithwch to mean devastation is a favorite - fagwraeth for upbringing…yup, I can see that…didn’t know tlawd for poor…it was a couple of paragraphs of pure gold as Aran puts it.

…its a very strange sensation when you are listening to something, expecting the meaning to kind of poke through from what you hear…when it doesn’t!

Upward and onward! Dal ati.

Rich :slight_smile:

#25

This all sounds good - and yes, the squashing of words together like ‘dwn im’ (same as ‘dunno’ really) is quite challenging I’m sure. This Sgwrs was with someone who’s learned, remember, so she does have the odd unique turn of phrase or sentence structure - I’m allowed to say that because she’s my mum…! :blush:
But then we all have our linguistic quirks, second language or not!

#26

Hi Martin, glad you enjoyed it! The next one is a lady from Cardigan - hope you get on well with it!

#27

Yes…and the Duncan connection too - I didn’t think of that! To be honest I thought the Welsh this week was of the type which is more compact and truncated words - long sentences with lots of clauses - the opposite end of the spectrum from the more long hand ‘learner” type sentences …so I would never have known just from hearing the Welsh …but when does a learner stop being a learner!!!

#28

Totally off topic, but I always came to my mind when I heard it and everybody keeps on asking “Cardigan like the sweater?” when I say where I’ve been. In fact I always say Aberteifi now. :grin:
But still curious if it’s related, and the only story I found talks about James Brudenell, 7th Earl of Cardigan. But he’s English, and only English places are mentioned so I can’t understand if it’s the same or there’s another one in England?

Also, I remember @rich mentioning going to a meet-up in Leeds, at some point - and that had reminded me I’ve been there once (for a series of coincidences)…at the Brudenell Social Club! :grinning:

This guy’s a recurring presence!

#29

Yes, interesting. I’m fairly sure there is direct connection as there is a Cardigan Road right next to the Brudenell Social Club ( great venue! …low on glamour…but great gigs!) in Leeds. I’m off to google that…!

#30

He did invent the cardigan…

…led the charge of the light brigade at the battle of balaclava (but the view is that it probably wasnt his fault)…

He didn’t invent the balaclava.

I’ve realised that I don’t understand the title system - Earl of Cardigan is title of marquesses of Ailsbury!!! but does appear to refer to the same ‘Cardigan’…the one in Wales

Just after that I lost the will to live…

…and so connection to Leeds still unknown.

:slight_smile: