SSiW is Rubbish, let's do better!

All the new learners we get turning up to Melbourne Welsh classes are on Duolingo. They love it. I have to convince them to swap and I am now revising the Duolingo patterns in combination with SSiW.

One weakness (if I am permitted to use the word) with using the new SSiW course in a group setting is that for the first 8 lessons all you talk about is learning Welsh. Which I réalisé is incredibly useful if you are in Wales and using your Welsh as those are exactly the conversations you will have. However, it is as boring as bat sh*t if you are trying to get a class motivated week by week. I therefore aim to set up a basic vocabulary that can be used with the familiar patterns. So dw i’n mynd i’r siop/banc/tafarn ayyb. Recently we have been using basic hobbies (as provided by the WJEC Flashcards) and building alternative dialogues.
For example:
Be’ wnes ti ddoe?
Wnes i fynd dawnsio.
O, pa mor hir wyt ti wedi bod yn dawnsio?
Dw i wedi bod yn dawnsio am biti mis…
Diddorol. Hoffwn i ddysgu sut i ddawnsio
Mae rhaid i fi ymarfer mwy ond dw i’n mwynhau dysgu yn fawr iawn…

So maybe a Duolingo style system that gives increased vocabulary to the patterns we are learning in each gwers would give people a sense that they are building vocabulary. Because people tell me they like SSiW for making sentences but Duolingo is better for building vocabulary.

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I’ve used Duolingo on and off but don’t like the way some of the modules very much … is it really that important to learn the Welsh for Cambridge so early on?! But I do like the fact it’s short. So if there was an add on game for ssiw, that would be fab! Maybe a game which gives you an English sentence and some recordings in Welsh for you to choose the correct one?

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Another thought about Memrise. There is a leaderboard. It should not matter. It is not a competition. But - I do a little bit extra to try to go up a place.

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A yes/no game would be good. You get a question with what in English would be a yes/no answer and you’ve got n seconds to answer it.
Oes ots 'da ti?
Est ti i Gaerdydd ddoe?
Licet ti baned?
Ydy dy ffrindiau yn mynd i gapel pob wythnos?
etc.
The problem with this would be that it would need to be speech- rather than text-based in order to get the best out of it. That would mean some kind of speech recognition engine in order to check the user’s answers. I’m pretty sure these things are available off the shelf, but probably not for Welsh.

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I would love something like that! It’s the one thing that slows me down in conversations. I find myself thinking in English - what would I say here? “I am”, “You do”, “He did” and then thinking of the equivalent in Welsh. I just don’t seem to get enough practice at it for it to come naturally in Welsh.

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Canolfan Bedwyr are on it!
http://techiaith.cymru/speech/speech-recognition/?lang=en

It’s over my head but I’ve seen demos at Hacio’r Iaith which were functional

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Ooh, don’t let it do that to you! Just use ia/na and slide with it until you find that you said something else first… :slight_smile:

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Less than 10% of the forum will recall the radio programme “Take Your Pick”. It included a “yes-No” interlude in which you had to answer quick fire questions for 60 seconds without saying “yes” or “no” or nodding or shaking your head. It always struck me that native Welsh speakers would cruise that competition.

A favourite eliminator was:
“You didn’t shake your head, did you?”
“No”
GONG, your out!

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I occasionally use Duolingo as it’s good for vocabulary, but I find it a bit frustrating. I’m learning northern Welsh and I don’t feel confident I’m learning normal spoken Welsh for some of it (like their pronounciation of eisiau), I worry it’s going to throw me off course. I personally find seeing the written words after I have learnt them on SSIW really helpful to keep them in mind and understand the etymology in some cases too.

I use Quizlet, I love it, for keeping me working (I’ve got to the end of SSIW for now until there is another course on Level 3). I like the way it gives you different ways of responding in the “learning” mode. If there was an SSIW version of this with spoken word too it would be great. The one danger of Quizlet is that the user puts in the original words and answers and so you can accidentally learn a typo and nobody’s there to tell you!

I would love a Yes/No game! I speak to a friend on FaceTime every week and find myself answering in English accidentally, although I am answering in the correct Welsh words more than I used to, which always takes me by surprise. Every week after our conversation I write down words that I’ve learnt during our chat and add them to Quizlet and practice them during the week so I’m increasing my vocabulary that way.

I love SSIW and I’ve learnt so much so quickly, but there are huge gaps in my comprehension - I’m all over the place with my byddas and fyddas - I think I could really do with a side-lesson where SSIW systematically uses each tense and makes you say questions and answers, so I really get to grips with the “I would”, “you could” , “he should”, “she wouldn’t” etc etc so you learn the grammar side in a fun way. I’ve been trying to find something to help me take it to the next level but other than standard written grammar (which is helpful to a point but doesn’t stick in my mind so well) I haven’t yet found anything to teach me that in a confident way.

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Heaven help me! I cannot make my bank’s auto-help program understand in English, never mind Welsh! On top of that, I find my hearing is definitely going and duolingo on my ipad is terrible! As for ‘yes’ and ‘no’, I am a great believer in Ie and Nage! May be wrong, but folk catch OK!

I’m using Duolingo alongside SSiW at the moment - but not very far into either, so take the following with a pinch of salt!

I like the visual aspect to Duolingo - I’m a very visual learner generally (e.g. during SSiW challenges I find myself trying to visualise the words and work out how they’re spelt, even though I know I shouldn’t be - I just don’t feel confident saying a word without this) and Duolingo meets that need. I like that it mixes up different tasks/question types (so sometimes you write from hearing, sometimes you translate this way and then that way, sometimes you have a picture, etc.).

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I’ve never found gamified language learning apps all that effective for me. I’ve done a fair bit of Duolingo and Memrise, and mostly what I’ve found is that I can get all the answers when I’m in the game, but somehow I find it really hard to recall them in a different context.

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That’s an interesting perspective. Thanks!

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That fits with research on context in learning, so it’s not surprising - although it’s interesting to hear it from someone in the context of Duolingo/Memrise - I think the version of that we see with SSi is that even people who’ve done all the material we’ve got will struggle in their first few conversations, whereas earlier stage learners who get into regular conversations will seem much more confident…

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I do it even more simple … “ie” and “na” are almost always answers for me and if there’s no need to be told more than that, it stays that way … totally colloquial isn’t it? But HEY!, me not to have something more to tell!!! Come on! So “ie” or “na” and additional “blablabla” does things for me however I know it’s hard to understand my Welsh especially what I actually wanted to tell … :slight_smile:

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Finding Welsh-speaking opportunities in Melbourne, Australia, has proved quite hard. Mostly I have settled for forcing Welsh on my friends so they understand what’s happening when I ask for things in Welsh. XD But I could certainly see that I might panic in my first few real conversations. Though I still find there’s a distinction between “I know this quite well, but if I tried to use it in conversation I might be too stressed to bring it out”, which I think I’d get for SSiW, and what I get for Duolingo, which is like “I did the past tense exercise yesterday, and got everything right, and I don’t remember what it was at all.” Having to create the Welsh sentence myself and say it out loud I think makes a difference for bringing it into a real-life context for me…

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Yes, I think you’re right - we try as much as possible to make all the work in SSi lead directly towards real conversation, so in most cases I’d hope you’d be ahead of the game with us… but worth noting that there’s still a kind of gear change…

Melbourne, huh? I think @elizabeth_jane and @Karla might be able to help you track down some conversation partners… :slight_smile:

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@Alasse, there are actually quite a few of us in Melbourne! In fact, there is a weekly class in the city on Tuesday nights. Feel free to get in contact with @elizabeth_j_corbett_ or myself if you’re interested! :slight_smile:

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Hello!
We generally meet at the Celtic Club in the city
but next Tuesday is our last week before moving venues. PM me or contact me via my website and I’ll keep you in the loop.
http://elizabethjanecorbett.com

I look forward to meeting you soon.

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We will get you talking! I agree. People enjoy Duolingo but it isn’t the same as having to produce the Welsh. SSiW is the course that does it best.

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