One thing I found useful on the 5-Dayer was a couple of minutes we spent trying to come up with sentences of a certain structure, for example, 'I … you ….’ or ‘You… me …’, so we had to come up with sentences such as ‘Do you want me to leave?’, and ‘I want you to speak Welsh now’. Maybe people could suggest sentence structures they want to practice (past tense, talking about ‘us’ etc. etc.) and people could take turns trying to come up with a sentence? Just an idea
Ie. Dw i’n barod.
(Sirious answer though) Good idea. I love it.
On more sirious note - thank you both. Yes I am in a bit of “deficit” as I don’t meet people here who’d speak Welsh so despite I’m using it in Skype sessions and learn a lot from this of course, I’m actually not “lively” exposed to the language spoken in the wild except for the BBC Cymru and Welsh music (ah, ja, this is not speach, is it? ) But from time to time I’m torturing people at my office with occassional “Bore da!” and on the phone with “Be’ ywt ti’n moin.” (as I know who’s calling me). Usually I get the laughter of surprise in return and the question (in Slovene) “What should I say now?” Great fun. I might get someone interested in learning this way one day (hopefully).
Ha ha! [quote=“tatjana, post:605, topic:1863”]
I don’t meet people here who’d speak Welsh
That must make it difficult. I should count my blessings that I can ‘nip’ 20 miles down the road to find enthusuastic, daily speakers of Welsh, if I wish to.
They definitely need some Welsh language in their lives. Perhaps if any of them liked poetry they could be tempted to take part in the Eisteddfod - as long as they could speak Welsh
One of those “dreammy clouds”. - hehe
Yup, but you get used to it in time and then you tend to grab every single opportunity if/when you hear someone will come to your little country which you could squeeze into one a bit bigger world’s city … On the bus you have ears like a rabbit listening to every single voice if by any chance you sense something (at least) Welsh related, If you don’t really learn on the bus and the bus is full of tourists, you pretend to study Welsh really hard occassionally turning your tablet so that everyone could see SaySomethingInWelsh app switched on etc, etc … Well, to be honest until now not too successfully … but you never know.
There’s no rule for this - it’s just a different way of saying pretty much the same thing - use whichever comes to mind first…
And remember, you’re not meant to speak at a ‘certain level’ - just enjoy being a Welsh speaker whenever you get the chance to speak Welsh…
What about “cael” and “Ma … gyda fi”? More or less the same thing as with “Mae’n rhaid i fi” and “Dw i’n gorfod i”?
I’m not sure what options you’re offering here - could you give me some examples?
Now you mention the cael bit, I guess with “time” there does sometimes seem to be some cross-over doesn’t there, where they are so similar as to make no odds?
I’ll write these nervously below in the hope of getting feedback on rights and wrongs?
“ges i amser i’w wneud e” neu “oedd amser gyda fi i’w wneud e”. I got time to do it or I had time to do it (there was time with me to do it?)
“dw i’n cael amser i’w wneud e” neu “mae’r amser gyda fi i’w wneud e”.???
@aran cywir neu anghywir, I really am not confident enough to pretend to really know.
Yes, this (is the example) and, if I’d want to say that I have something or I’ve got something I’d always say “cael”.
“Dw i’n cael coffi.” and not Mae’r goffi gyda fi." for example. In no particular time all the same. I’d more likely use “cael” structure for everything I have or I’ve got rather then “Mae … gyda fi.” How right or wrong is it or/and what’s the rule for that if any.
Ah, right - neither of these is (in isolation) wrong, but they mean different things.
‘Dwi’n cael amser i’w wneud e’ is more like ‘I get time to do it’ - so ‘I get time for a coffee if I’m in work early enough’. The meaning is certainly fairly close, but very much not interchangeable - if you want t say ‘I have time right now’ it will always need to be gyda/gen - ‘Dwi’n cael amser’ will always be a more present continuous kind of deal.
‘Dwi’n cael coffi’ would be used if you were saying ‘dwi’n cael coffi bob bore’ - again, present continuous. If you want to let someone know that right now you have some coffee in your possession, you will always need to use gyda/gen…
Thank you. Now I know and I think this wasn’t really explained in the lessons so I couldn’t even forget as there was no such thing to remember. (releived! )
I hope I’ll remember now but I surely will mix all again. However, having things written here now I’ll always know where to look to remember.
Thanks, It seems to more interchangeable in the past though doesn’t it, but I guess if I was talking about something I always had time to do and did often like a hobby then it might be different to I got time to drink the pint (ges i)?
I got time to drink a pint and I had time to drink a pint seem pretty interchangeable in English, but in Welsh the difference is much clearer/stronger, so sorry, no, still not interchangeable (although you will in most cases be understood, so it’s unlikely to be the end of the world!)…
Well, I have to admit my “progress” really slowed down lately and I didn’t finish even Level 2. At the moment I’m (still) on the repeating the old course 3 and those shorten forms of all (possible) tenses really gets to my nerves, not because they’re there but because I just can’t quite understand them at all and I am not really capable of using them. So here’s one little question: Is there any list of short forms and from what verb/structure they’re derived. Maybe if I’ll know original I’ll more understand them. As much as i recall they’re not all in the written guide and (of course) there are not long forms written from which the shortenings derive. I tried to do such list but to be honest I didn’t have much success with this. If I could write short form down I all of a sudden didn’t know what it actually mean as they more or less seam all the same to me. “gesi”, “esi” “desi” … all the same …
I know not using shortenings isn’t the end of the world but it’s surely more natural to do so (at least on the South I presume), then not to.
I alos know listening to radio, watching TV would help, but, sorry, I don’t have that time to sit and listen/watch something at the moment. And besides, if you catcc yourself to snooze while listening to something, that has no particular use at all.
Well, don’t worry, I’m not getting back on track of moaning, I’d just like to give myself some aid because those shortenings really fell hard on me today. It was like I’d never be able to understand and use them …
Thans in advance.
I don’t have much time right now but maybe have a look at these for starters-
Irregular verbs past tense:
Irregular verbs future tense:
Getting hit in the head with the short form
As i have said to people before ‘you are not alone’ these still are not in place.
Thinking i will run through the old course 3 next week and see how i cope.
I was reading the topic of @Eigentime’s progress in learning and went to see my stats on the same level he is right now. Then I was cruising through my progress logs a bit and came across this.(I even now feel the despare I was in at the time).
Do you remember? The result was at te time this
I forgot how this test looks like and did it again. “You have mostly a Growth Mindset” it says now. What my first thoughts were “Congrats to us both!”
You believed in my abilities and your wish you could help was enourmous. It radiates from this particular post even now. I wish you will succeede in helping Michael in his learning at the same level as you did with me.
I just can’t do anything about if I say big Diolch one more time! and all the best!
Tatjana annwyl. That’s such wonderful news…
Llongyfarchiadau mawr iawn iawn!
After 5 months I thought I’d write some little update which is actually not update at all as I didn’t get anywhere further than I was 5 months ago. However taking a break of learning and just do some little things on a daily basis didn’t get me much further. Actually I feel it caused me go a step or two back.
Some things which happened recently made me think about this all and made me aware I should be way ahead where I am now but I’m not. I gave a small interview to someone (you might already know to who) and when reading edited version of it I realized how much editing that poor person had to make for the interview to look at least a bit “advanced”. I have realized how simple my language still is and rather real “hwntw” what has nothing to do with South-North versions but it reflects on how half-way the language is used by me. I’m forgetting all kinds of "yn"s, “arguing” with myself where to put “i”, “yn” or something else, mutating where I sholdn’t and not mutating where I should for sure … and more “tiny” bits I’d have to know already. So, yah, don’t expect you’ll hear good Welsh speaker when talking to me. This is also the reason I don’t volunteer with anything related to those who actually only started to learn. Speaking with me would rather mean that one would be confused and would learn nothing or would learn wrongly.
The other thing which made me aware I stagnated was today’s Level 1 Challenge 25 repetition. I’m still not good at using shortenings and it’s hard even to remember them for me what to use them in such quick time which are the gaps inbetween English and Welsh in the lesson. I could use pause button, but it might not provide any challenge to me or I wouldn’t be forced to think too hard to remember things.
I also know that I use tenses all the way wrong. If earlier I wasn’t abloe to use “o’n i’n” and similar things now I’m using this all the time even when very simple past tense would be required. But mostly it’s still “nes i”, “nes i ddim” “nest ti” and such stuff we’ve learnt at first, what comes to my mind and what I use even when there would be more useful to use shortenings.
No, I’m not moaning and if I’ve written the last time how I’ve changed my fixed mindset into growth one, this stil guilts it’s just to let all know that one who’d talk to me shouldn’t expect to hear really “advanced” and fine tuned Welsh from my end. I’m stil where I was … at the very beginning although I understand mostly everything what’s been told to me but my answers are way too simple to be counted into something advanced or fine tuned.
Might be I’ve disapointed those who put so much effort into my learning, even comming to visit me and even made much more things for me, but that’s how it is … I’m trying my best to be able to really learn every day a bit, but the time is even more hard on me as it was before. Now I am comuting already for almost 4 and a hlaf hours a day and the things (despite i’m going almost the same distance as before just in another direction of the city) look to go even worse when winter comes. This week I’m at home and I put more effort into doing or re-doing more lessons but when this time passes I’ll have to switch back to “normal” again.
So, that’s basically why I don’t involve in any Skyping more than I already do (sgwrs with @brigitte and @ramblingjohn’s Skype practice when it occurs). I might do more damage to beginners than do them a favour.
So, this is it. Now back to learning.
Oh @tatjana fach.
You were looking in my head and writing how i feel about my Welsh.
I have spoken welsh once with one person in Oxford this summer, yes life/work gets
in the way at times.
The positives are look how far you have come and how you have inspired others.
Many on here would give you a gold star for determination and entertainment.
keep doing what you are doing which will help others do the same.