Tiny questions with quick answers - continuing thread - OLD


#4085

Very good, I like the brevity of that!


#4086

Thanks sumsmeister, keeping fit and well. Glad to occasionally check in to the forum. All the best to you also


#4087

There probably is an old Welsh name for Bournemouth (unless it was founded after the Welsh types were pushed further down the peninsula towards the Tamar

…Portsmouth has the old Welsh/Devonian name “Llongberth” as it is written in Welsh records of a Devonian king dying to Saxon encroachment at some significant battle there (Devon comes from the Devonian Welsh/old Welsh - Dyfnaint (well that’s the modern spelling)- hardly any Welsh seem to know this sadly)

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fC1ZAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=llongberth&source=bl&ots=jShZmM6eUU&sig=q1bR_5wkczdSSUeiUV2gya45o0M&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwip_OmI1e3aAhVCPsAKHRXXCeYQ6AEIKzAA#v=onepage&q=llongberth&f=false


#4088

What is the Welsh for “Get over it”? … I am not a big fan of the phrase…comes across as quite aggressive and intolerant … but still good to know for those more informal jokey chats down the tafarn :wink:

Also useful to command stubborn kids over a stile I suppose haha


#4089

Idioms are always difficult to translate as there is often no neat/direct equivalent. The closest thing that comes to mind which is used quite often (and is sort of less aggressive I suppose) is ‘gad e fod’ (leave it be).


#4090

Now you’ve put this in my head!

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=welsh+version+let+it+go&view=detail&mid=1B74D8BE6D48159409221B74D8BE6D4815940922&FORM=VIRE


#4091

Yes! But, and sorry to impose, since you have been very generous already with your time in this thread, could you possibly deconstruct that “ngweld” for me, because it’s (to use the crude English phrase) doing my head in. :slight_smile:


#4092

The full form of the sentence is
O’n i wedi cael fy ngweld i
(Passive construction with “cael” plus possessive pronoun)
The nasal mutation of “gweld” is caused by the possessive “fy”, and in cases such as this, where the mutation causes an audible and unambiguous difference, the “fy” and “i” are often dropped in speech.
Another example: Es i i weld 'nhad ddoe - I went to see my dad yesterday.


#4093

Diolch Hendrik.


#4094

I’ve never thought of finding a Welsh name for Portsmouth, even though I’ve lived here longer than anywhere else. So from now on, “Dwi’n byw yn Llongberth”, I live in Llongberth. Sounds so much more interesting in Welsh, for some reason…
Thanks brynle :hugs:.


#4095

Without the i, though - we don’t use the echoing pronoun of the possessive when it’s the passive construction like here. So similarly, for example:

I was paid
Ges i nhalu (not: *Ges i nhalu fi)

We were soaked
Gaethon ni’n gwlychu (not *Gaethon ni’n gwlychu ni)

Were you arrested?
Gaethoch chi’ch arestio? (not: *Gaethoch chi’ch arestio chi?)

We were all born on Phobos
Gaethon ni i gyd ein geni ar Phobos (not: *Gaethon ni i gyd ein geni ni ar Phobos)


#4096

I thought i was taught to use the echoing pronoun. Was that,.because it was so long ago… or… because it was very literary Welsh… or… because of language police… or because I wasn’t paying attention and got the wrong end of the stick? (Mm does that saying have a Welsh version?)


#4098

You were probably taught to use it with the straightforward possession use - ei siop e his shop, ei siop hi her shop, eu siop nhw their shop

This is dead OK, especially with examples like above, where ei and eu sound the same anyway and there is no mutation possible to distinguish - but is generally used even when there is: ei gar e his car, ei char hi her car, eu car nhw their car.

The literary brigade don’t like it, of course.

But you don’t use the echoing pronoun in passives - or to think of it another way: you only use echoing pronouns after actual nouns, not after VNs.


#4099

There is debate as to whether it is llongborth or llongberth for Portsmouth…google to see how both return results…any history buffs help me out here?


#4100

I thought borth had a meaning of ‘gate’ snd a shipgate seems much as a port’s mouth!


#4101

Yes, Porth/borth can be gate or port, as you will recall, Hendraig.


#4102

Just curious about that page in the book with Methu/ffili - I see there is an ‘yn’ before the verb. I don’t know about ‘methu’ as I realise that I mostly hear it as “wedi methu” here in Ceredigion, but I will have to relisten to the old southern SSiW course, as I never say the “yn” before “ffili” - I always say “Wi ffili” or “O’n i ffili” and I learnt that from the old course … I think … or possibly Pobol y Cwm :grinning:


#4103

it’s just the yn getting swallowed up, I think @dee - ffili (or ffaelu as it’s sometimes spelt) is a normal VN, and it should require an yn to link it to bod.

Don’t get me wrong, though - I’m a big fan of hyperfast speaking with things swallowed! :slight_smile:


#4104

Interesting! I’m going to be listening intently now. I heard it on Radio Cymru this morning and couldn’t hear any sign of an ‘n’, but as you say, he was speaking quickly so perhaps it just got swallowed. It’s made me curious though, so it’s going to jump out at me whenever I hear it :smile:


#4105

I hear it without the yn too - speedy PYC speak - Wi ffili! (shouts Eileen for the millionth time when yet another person suggests that all her psychopathic daughter needs is a bit of motherly support…) I like ffili, it’s one of my favourites. Such a positive way to be negative! :smile_cat: