Tiny questions with quick answers - continuing thread


#5236

Sorry, here’s what she actually messaged me:
Nai edrych arna fo rwan.


#5237

Aha, yes, that’s a more common structure… :slight_smile:


#5238

Here is a recording of “neu” pronounced in the online dictionary gweiadur.com
(I would normally just refer you to the dictionary itself, but that one unfortunately needs registration, and registrations are still closed I think). I repeated it 5 times and recorded it in Audacity, then uploaded it to soundcloud:

(It could be a computer voice, but to me sounds human. Not sure if northern or southern. Possibly meant to be “neutral”, but that’s not really possible!

When you say "pronounced ‘ne’ " I’m not sure exactly what you mean, since “ne” isn’t an English word, so how is “ne”? pronounced? “ne” does exist in Welsh as a soft mutation of “de” (meaning “south” or “right”). Actually, I’ve just listened to Gweiadur’s version of “de” and the vowel sound is not actually that different from that of “neu”, to be honest, although I would have expected it to be different.

Well, have a listen and see what you think, and as always, “paid a phoenu” neu “paid a becso”. :slight_smile:


#5239

Thanks a lot, the neu in the recording sounds like the ones in SSIW challenges and in the songs (aka my tutor Mr.Edwards) - that I usually refer to for pronunciation. :slightly_smiling_face:

The fact is that when I try to understand what I hear on the radio I make my guesses and then try to understand if they make sense.

In this case I heard someone listing things like a phone number, an email, a Twitter account etc connecting them with what I heard as ne. Like neu without the u. An e more or less like in neb, beth, peth, fel (I don’t know how to make examples in English, there’s too many ways to write and pronounce vocals!)

I just wondered if it’s like beth becomes be, wedi becomes di, or gyda becomes da.

But don’t worry I’m not worried! :wink:


#5240

Sometimes (to avoid problems with whether or not people know IPA) you’ll see people refer to things in terms of these Lexical sets for English. Of course, it doesn’t work very well for discussing Welsh – unless you’re actually trying to do so with an English accent – given that the vowel of neu isn’t really the FACE vowel. But sometimes it might help: I understand what you said to mean that you heard it with something like the DRESS vowel, when that wasn’t quite what you expected to hear.


#5241

Right, that may work. But with all the tiny variations that exist (and I have heard speaking with people with different accents) I’m often not sure that the sound I normally use for an English word is correct! So I’m not sure of which word to use for comparison.

For example, I suspected (English vowel) of bed is like Welsh fel or neu, but not completely sure, so I prefer to compare to other Welsh words.(you said dress, that I’m pretty sure it’s same sound as bed so it would have probably been right.


#5242

There are some regional differences, in some quite rural areas I’ve heard “neu” pronounced like the English “nair” - but for the most part, like the English “nay”


#5243

The “correct” pronunciation of neu is - as others have said - rather like the english “nay.”

But also remember that, when someone is speaking fluently, and especially when listing off multiple things (like “this or that or the other”) the actual word neu will probably be said very quickly and thus, probably, come out sounding more like ne. If I just say that phrase in English, my “correct” pronunciation of “or” turns into 'r.


#5244

… and sometimes, depending on usage it sounds like “ta”. :wink:


#5245

What’s the pronunciation of “Ofnadwy”? Or, I suppose, of “wy” in general? I know it’s one of those funny ones that changes depending on what precedes it, particularly if it’s a G, but how does it sound at the end of words?

Is it more like “ov-nad-oy” or “ov-nad-wee”? For that matter, how is the name “Myfanwy” pronounced? “Muh-van-wee” or “muh-van-oy”?


#5246

As someone who comes from Trefynwy, Sir Fynwy… I’d love to be able to give you a definitive answer - but I can’t! I hear it pronounced both ways by different people in different places.
Personally, I tend to use the ‘-wee’ pronounciation, but for instance the late, great historian John Davies always used the ‘-oy’ one.


#5247

Thanks Siaron. So whichever I use I wouldn’t really be wrong? That’s just as well, as I seem to say “Myvanwee” but “Ovnadoy”!


#5248

You know the ‘get-out-clause’ if anyone queries it, though, don’t you?
“That’s the way they say it down my way” :wink:


#5249

What’s the difference between disgwyl and edrych that both seem to mean to look?


#5250

Disgwyl is more of a southern thing and really means expect. It’s a slang way of saying look and is commonly used in the south. Not much help but that’s all I know ha. :thinking:


#5251

I think disgwyl is used for “look” when that word is used to mean “expect.” As in “I’m looking to have a quiet evening.”


#5252

@Sionned it makes sense!
However, in the challenges (that’s where I found it), it doesn’t really seem to mean expect, does it?
You don’t look old enough - So chi’n disgwyl yn ddigon hen.
They look lively - Maen nhw’n disgwyl yn fywiog
They look like a real handful - Maen nhw’n disgwyl fel llond llaw go iawn.

Maybe as @philipmcmanamon it’s just a very Southern thing…just like someone before was saying in the North people might not even have heard of dishgled for cup?

By the way it disgwyl fel they really love this dishg/disg sound in the South! :smiley:


#5253

I’m afraid I got a bit intrigued when you said “slang”, so I did some digging.

In Edward Lhoyd’s famous book on the British languages including Cornish language in 1707 Archaeologia Britannica, Volume 1, page 234, he says that disgwyl in Welsh from the 13th/14th Century means, to look, to view or behold.


#5254

That’s interesting. Thank you. :grin:


#5255

Hmm… .That is interesting! One of the things I like about Y Geiriadur Mawr is that it has a lot of “archaic” words - words that aren’t used any more or that have changed meanings. It also gives the definition first in Welsh, then in English. So I looked up disgwyl in GM and here’s what I found:

disgwyl, eg. [enw gwrtywaidd - masculine noun] . . . disgwyliad; gwylfa. EXPECTATION; WATCH.

disgwyl (ŵy), be. [berfenw - verb-noun] hyderu, gobeithio, aros am (rywun), erfyn (rhywun). TO EXPECT, TO LOOK, TO WATCH.

disgwylgar, a. [ansoddair - adjective] yn disgwyl. EXPECTANT; WATCHFUL.

disgwyliad, eg. . . . hyder, gobaith, ymddangosiad, erfyniad. EXPECTATION, HOPE, APPEARANCE.

None of these were marked as archaic.