Tiny questions with quick answers - continuing thread


#5598

Diolch aran.


#5599

Not at all! But it’s quite a handy bit of knowledge if you visit Wales between November and March :wink:

I also meant “root” not “route” of the word…good old consistent English eh?! :joy:


#5600

I got used to being confused by English language. :wink:

As for try, from your comment and @gruntius I could guess it was a score. And I know in rugby you either take the ball beyond a line or kick it high enough between two poles, but couldn’t guess which one it was.
So I looked it up in the dictionary, and oh, I knew the the Italian word for it: meta.

Now the funny thing. if you translate back meta into English, you get goal.
That’s ironical: the team that tries harder to score a try, but rarely succeed in its goal, calls it “goal”; the best teams that way more often reach their goal, call it try. :dizzy_face:


#5601

I’ve come across the word meta in scientific terms and it seems to mean “in between” and a prefix or term imported from Greek I think. I guess it didn’t come into Welsh, where I guess “rhwng” would be used, but might be linked to English middle?? , although that’s just a purely unsubstantiated guess on my part.

A couple of other greek words used in scientific terms that might questionably link to Welsh words - maybe with an intermediary Latin link? , or maybe and quite possibly just by pure coincidence simply sound or feel similar, might be traws and trans, ortho and wrtho, cis and cyf, de and dextro and very very speculatively para and parhau.


#5602

We have the greek meta- in many Italian words too. But the one that ended up in rugby comes from the Roman Circus and is not related (and probably didn’t influence many words around Europe, even though at times they might sound similar - like it often happened I see!)


#5603

Can meta just be rhwng-" ?

What is meta-analysis?


#5604

As for try, from your comment and @gruntius I could guess it was a score.

In rugby union (15 players) or rugby league (13 players) a try is scored by any player crossing the oponent’s goal line and touching the ball under control on the ground before the dead ball line. A try can be converted by any player (usually the best kicker) kicking the ball from a spot at the same distance from the touch (side) line as the touch down between the two upright goal paosts and above the horizontal bar. The try is then “converted” into a goal. In rugby union the try is (as I write) worth 5 points and a successful conversion kick adds a further 2 points. (corrected with thanks to @stephenbranley

Never mind all that. If you want to know what a try is, you won’t do better than watch what I and many others consider to be the best try ever. It was scored by a Welsh national hero, Sir Gareth Edwards. It’s a bit blurry and antique (1973) but you’ll get the idea. “That” try


#5605

A try is worth 5 points in Union and 4 in League. In both codes the conversion adds an extra 2.

Tries haven’t been worth three points for decades!

Incidentally, the term “try” comes from the fact that it originally scored zero points, but allowed the team a kick at goal to attempt the “conversion” - converting the try at goal into a goal.


#5606

Alright, thanks for the crash course, everybody. :grinning:

Ooh, that was impressive, for sure! :open_mouth::open_mouth:
Now any try I’ll get the chance to see is going to look lame in comparison, though! :wink:
(and very cool sideburns by the way)


#5607

OMG @stephenbranley I’ve been making more and more of these gaffs recently and they’re beginning not to be funny. :worried: :worried:

You are, of course, absolutely right. :blush:

@gisella-albertini and others - from now on, take anything I say with a kilo of salt. :frowning:

edit: In my defence - the last match I played in was at the University of East Anglia five years before “that try”


#5608

And you are, of course, absolutely right about the Gareth Edwards try! Some OUTRAGEOUS high tackles among that lot too!


#5609

There isn’t a GPC word, but in my mind the English word is a misinterpretation of meta, because in this case it’s referring to a combination of analyses (I guess it comes from trying to find the middle ground - sounds odd and awkward to me). To me you could do the same in Welsh using canol or something else or do something different and use a cyf or cyd prefix - more likely cyf I think.
There’s a group somewhere that makes up technical words in Welsh and I don’t know what they’ve done here, but the analysis bit could go a few ways. You could have a combination of elements - cyf-elfenainiad or somehow combine cyf with datod?

This is beyond my Welsh comprehension skills and maybe one for Aled Hughes on Radio Cymru to put out on the radio to get a really simple laymans term, which is going to be far more meaningful than the word meta-analysis or any welsh term derived from it.


#5610

I had a look at Y Termiadur Addysg which only gave me these when I searched for ‘meta’ -
meta-analysis = metaddadansoddi
meta-ethics = metafoeseg
meta-linguistic = metaieithyddol
…so it seems the Welsh keeps the meta- prefix.


#5611

For what it’s worth I’m with you, Huw. Even when I’m at a game waiting for the ref to decide on a possible try, I’m thinking “That’ll be three points plus the extra two that they’ve added on for some reason”.


#5612

Or the (?) trendy (?) “I’m good thanks” (to which I always want to add: “hmm…I think we’ll be the judge of that”).

(I believe that in USAmerican usage, from which this is (perhaps slightly erroneously) copied, the “I’m good thanks” is usually in response to an offer of food or drink, when the person doesn’t want anything).

Then there is the (almost universal, in the introduction a certain type of Youtube video):

“Hey guys - what’s up?” (To which I always want to reply: “er, nothing thanks; nothing’s upsetting me at all”, but I suspect that’s not what they are asking, and neither do they care…or “they could care less” in a certain type of American argot).


#5613

I would only add that in my experience, it is usually pronounced as if spelled “wotcha”, or possibly “wotchuh”.

Traditional cockneys are supposed to say “wotcher cock!”. “Cock” in this case does not refer to male domestic fowls, or any part of the male anatomy, but (as I see in the online Merriam-Webster), refers to “a person of spirit, or of a certain swagger or arrogance” (hence “cocky”, I assume).


#5614

A response in English I was raised with in NE Wales … in reply to “hows it going/how are you”.

“aye, alright man” … lot of “man” on the ending …not bad man… maybe Gwynedd does it too…but you get “aye” in NE Wales for some reason - also refer to yourself personally as “us” especially ppl from flintshire way


#5615

Regarding arno fe/fo and arni hi for on him or her. Is it still ok to just use arno and arni (on) without the fe/fo or hi? If you get my drift. So, arni for on her.


#5616

yes, you don’t have to use the fe/fo or hi, but they are handy if you want to put extra emphasis on the him or her.


#5617

Yes it is - but remember NOT to do this with any of the other pronouns. So you can’t say arnyn, or arna, or arnon, or arnoch. Not in normal natural speech, at least. But doing it with fe/fo and hi is positively recommended, sounds very natural and fluent!