SSi Forum

Tiny questions with quick answers - continuing thread


#6281

And it rhymes. Bargen!


#6282

Two questions … the final one is a bit obscure!

  1. What are the different ways of saying “just” in Welsh? … learning in the community means I hear ‘jest’ and ‘jyst’ so much I’m maybe forgetting the others ways of saying just in Welsh.

I know ‘newydd’ (just about) and ‘dim ond’ (not but/ only) can be used in context for just…but my feeling is that there are times ‘just’ was a concept/word not needed in Welsh in the past, hence why with modern media we have imported the English ‘just’ into speech to adapt to changing ways of speaking about modern concepts?

  • Is something like “cyrraedd” (arriving/reaching) related?
  1. Is there a standalone Welsh word for farm historically?
    Is the concept of a farm not a very ‘welsh/old welsh thing’ traditionally as everything is spelt “fferm”. I realise the English spelling ‘farm’ comes from french and then latin which made me think… was there an older word for Welsh farms? (Was tyddyn it or related to amaeth?)

Is a farm something as a concept brought in with feudalism(hence latin origin->french>English)?
I wonder what the old Welsh/Brythonic celts called agricultural plots…warned you this was obscure… but my family are farmers so it relates to me personally :innocent::rofl::joy:
Diolch am unrhyw help


#6283

Okay, here’s an answer based on the two dictionaries I use most.

  1. Gareth King has several different words for “just” such as:
    a - newydd - just now (as you mentioned)
    b - gynnau - just now in the preterite/past (be’ wedodd e gynnau?)
    c - ar fin - about to (do something)
    d - yn union - immediately (as in ‘just before that happened’)
    e - yn union - exactly (that’s just what I said)
    f - o’r braidd - barely (he just escaped)
    g - dim ond, yn unig - only (just a week ago)
    h - yr un - as in ‘just (as big)’
    i - cyflawn - second definition - fair or just (as in justice)

2, For a different term for farm, in addition to fferm GM (Y Geiriadur Mawr) has the word tyddyn meaning “small holding, small farm.”


#6284

Good question - I was wondering how many large farms there would there have been prior to the agricultural revolution, a few estates maybe and lots of small holdings? Was it similar to the situation in the scottish highlands and Ireland?, which had a more clan/communal structure, that broke down in the agricultural revolution and gave rise to larger farms - I’ll be intrigued to know the answer.

Tref is a small collection of houses and cantref is a hundred dwellings and I wonder if naming was done via names of fields (cae, tir, ar etc), with it’s tref, cantref and house name? Those moving animals to summer pastures had a hafod and then a hendre or gaeadre for the winter, where I think they tended to share the house with the small-holders.

Maybe the concept of a farm as we know it today, with individual owners of hundreds of acres didn’t really apply as you said?


#6285

Probably the people to ask are on Twitter:
Y Wenwhyseg, and Robert McFarlane.

However, as you mentioned cae, perhaps also some toponyms that we still find in old farm names, such as Ynys or Pant.

GPC has: Darn bach o dir: plot (of land). I’m not sure if that would work for agriculture. Also I found gransh, Maenor, grêns, graens & grefan for grange.

Some other ones if you want to get away from enclosures, would be the buildings in the open farms:
demên, maerdref, maerdy, hafod, Hafoty, llaethdy

I think that Llanerch is more eccliastical.

A couple of final ancient Celtic ones from outside Wales: a lonnen (Lôn) was a safe place to milk cows and I think a Hala was an upland area where they collected sheep.


#6286

Ydy Llefar/u ar lafar? :wink:
(Is the word “Llefaru” found in common speech as an alternative to say/speak/tell?)

I read it today: used twice in a bible verse: Twice in the older WMB, once in the same verse in the Beibl Newydd and not at all in the Beible.net version.

Going on to common speech, it was mentioned in the GPC and Modern Welsh Dictionary as being up to date, especially in the sense of going on a bit.

I was just wondering if anyone actually hears it being used in the street etc in mainstream conversations.

Edited - It just struck me as being a possible stem for "Ar lafar


#6287

Hi John,

A decent percentage of daily news reports on radio Cymru end up with ‘according to a spokesman on behalf of xyz’

Yn ôl lefarydd o ran… heddlu, llwyodraeth Cymraeg etc etc

So it seems that variants are very much alive and kicking - I haven’t seen or heard it used for ‘to speak/ tell’ in my limited experience but that probably means it will crop up several times in the next few days! :smile:

Rich :slight_smile:


#6288

Out of curiosity, is the program unlimited? Has anyone ever maxed out the lessons or does anyone know the furthest people have gotten?


#6289

Do you mean SSiW? :smiley:


#6290

If so, in brief, there are three levels, followed by the Advanced Content of learning, which is being added to on a weekly basis. Also, unlimited access to internet practice and this forum plus other social media guidance etc. internet. So no, you cant run out of material.


#6291

Plus, our old course material is still available, and people often find that worth a run through once they’ve finished the levels, just to pick up a few more patterns and different vocab.


#6292

probably as much as you would UTTER the word ‘utter’ in English … its nearest comparative translation :smiley:


#6293

I frealized I quite like dw i angen for I need (even though the Southern course teaches ma eisiau i fi).
But I really like the southern way to make negative sentences.
So I was wondering: would sai angen sound weird?
I’ve heard sai eisiai before (meaning I don’t want), so I guess it should work as well? :grin:


#6294

Im not sure. Although the Northern Dwi angen does also get used in the south. Also mae rhaid … In the North.

It wasnt the Northern sa was it? Short for bysa {Would). So, would need. It sounds a bit different though. Or someone from Mid-Wales :grin:


#6295

I’m sure it meant I don’t want, but could be canol Walian mix (whatever it is called)!
:grin:


#6296

Canolbartheg maybe??? :joy:


#6297

Yeah. Slightly tounge in cheek of me saying they would be Mid-Walians. I cant see why South Walians wouldn’t say it. Angen is very common. I’ll listen out.


#6298

Hi, I hope I have posted this right. Just a quick question that I couldn’t find: is the accent really obvious when an English person is speaking Welsh? Like when people from other countries first learn English? Or is it not as bad? Thanks!


#6299

There’s no yes or no answer to this - it’s very much an individual thing. I would say though that feedback the SSiW method regularly recieves would indicate that those learning with SSiW pick up a Welsh accent much easier and quicker than those learning by other methods.


#6300

I’m sure that like @siaronjames pointed out it’s an individual thing.

However I guess the hardest accent to spot is always…your own first language, isn’t it?

I think you can more easily notice the Italian inflections when I (or any Italian) speak Welsh or English - because they’re just “normal” to us.

While I suspect I’m more sensitive to English accent in Welsh. I very often hear it also in very fluent speakers - especially from some areas and cities - because it sounds quite different and more complicated to understand for me non-native English!