Oops! You’re absolutely right! (Though not too many people would notice either way you say it.)
I remember being baffled hearing it for the first time too, lol.
And this, with ddylwn i ddim, for an Italian it’s particularly funny because it seems they’re talking about the political situation here - veleni = poison, also in figurative sense, and Dem is a way to refer to the Democrat political party!
Taking inspiration from a challenge, but using a synonym for “exactly” (that I happen to already remember, and a bit of a wordplay in this specific sentence).
I have exactly the same bike myself
Mae gyda fi gwmws yr un beic fy hunan
Mae gyda fi yn union yr un beic fy hunan
Is the order correct in the second one?
yes, that’s the correct order and so it doesn’t confuse you, iIn speech you might hear people missing out the ‘yn’ (e.g. Mae gyda fi union yr un…)
And since we’re on the topic…Iestyn says a slightly different version of “my” which…er…I tend to ignore because I remember fy easily and I don’t want to mess it up!
It sounds like yn hunan. Does it make sense?
So that would be:
Mae gyda fi (yn) union yr un beic yn hunan
p.s. I don’t know if it’s because I started by listening to Datblygu, but I think Welsh is the most awesome language to play with sounds!
Don’t think of “fy hunan” as ‘my’, think of it as ‘myself’ (“I’ve got the exactly the same bike myself”). It’s a sort of emphasis idiom (the ‘myself’ at the end emphasises the ‘I’ at the beginning).
You may also hear ‘myself’ as “fy hun” rather than ‘fy hunan’ - both are ok.
yup - that’s the whole basis of Cynghanedd poetry
I think for “exactly” like that you can also just say “yr un un…”.
The same bike = yr un beic
Exactly the same bike = yr un un beic
Is this correct?
I’m going to take note of the fy hun.
Not quite sure of what you mean with thinking of it as thinking of it myself not my.
That seems quite like English where I think of
my+self, your+self, him+self and so on.
Therefore in Welsh
ei hunan (etc)
Oh I’m totally ignorant about Cynghanedd poetry, but definitely seems like something I should find out more about, thanks!
‘yr un un’ is just a more emphatic way of saying ‘yr un’ (e.g. “the very same”), but I don’t see why you couldn’t interpret it as ‘exactly the same’ - it’s only a very subtle difference!
yup, that’s it exactly - what I meant by ‘myself’ rather than ‘my’ was to take the two words in Welsh to mean one word in English - but you’ve sussed that already I think!
yes, that’s exactly it - but when you get to the plural pronouns, you’d use the plural ‘hunain’:
In West Wales you often drop or slightly change “fy” to “yn”. So “fy nhad” can become “yn nhad” (say it out loud and it’s just the f that’s dropped). You’ll see this in literature, particularly T. Llew Jones because he writes in the local vernacular. You’ll also see just “nhad” with no fy or yn, normally followed by i - “nhad i”. Because the mutation tells you its my.
Oh I guess it was easier because Welsh is more similar to Italian with this. It’s always English that makes things more complicated!
Oh great, that must be the Iestyn thing I had never really figured, thanks!
To mean repeating like when you ask someone how to say something in Welsh, they say it, and you (try to) say it too.
Is it more of an ailadrodd or copïo?
By the way, how should ï be pronounced? Never seen it before!
Or maybe if it’s a longer sentence, like following a transcription of an interview or song lyrics while listening to them, would dilyn be more appropriate maybe?
p.s. sorry, tiny question day for me!
ailadrodd sounds a bit formal to me - I’d say most people would use ail-ddweud (for repeat as in a verbal repetition).
copïo is to copy rather than to repeat - the dots over the i indicate that it is pronounced separately from the o (so it always sounds like “ee.oh” rather than the dipthong “eeyoh” or “yo”) - but it could be used in your example because you’d be copying what they say as well as repeating it!
Many ‘repeats’ in Welsh are made by prefixing “ail” to the verb (like the prefix “re-” in English). To repeat a TV programme is ailddarlledu (re-broadcast), to repeat an order for something is ailarchebu (re-order) and you’ll often hear ail-neud for repeating an action (re-doing).
Not sure how dilyn fits in as far as repeating goes - dilyn is to follow, which is what you’d be doing in your sentence so that works fine, but it’s not really a case of repetition, so no need to worry about the right kind of ‘repeat’.
Like @siaronjames said, the two dots (diaeresis) just tell you to pronounce two vowels separately. There’s a US newspaper – I think it might be the New York Times – that always spells coöperation with a diaeresis, but it’s pretty unusual in English. The girls’ names of Greek origin Zoë and Chloë tend to have them, and it’s also there to stop the French car manufacturer Citroën from sounding like they make and sell lemons. You’ll see it, too, in French words that have been borrowed into other languages: naïve is sometimes so spelt in English, although apparently Italian usually does without the dieresi in naïf
Oh never seen that!
I knew it in French (although I admit I had never realized that cars would otherwise become fruits, ha).
That’s what I first thought - but then I thought in Welsh vowels do not behave like in French, where, for example, naif would be read nef!
In Welsh, like in Italian, io is normally pronounced io - like in cofio - not cofo!
So what it seems to do here, to me, is actually moving the stress forward. That’s a shame, since otherwise it would have been exactly like Italian copio (that sounds còpio).
But thinking about it, I could have guessed if I had remembered the name Loïc (that’s probably Breton?)
p.s. yes, we use naïf borrowed as is from French. Therefore it should be written like this, although until recently - when keyboards allow you to easily find all special characters - it was usually typed naif [in Italic].
…assuming someone ever happens to come across Boötes… (which never occurred to me until now)
So it seems – which feels a bit odd, since I instinctively want to put the stress in the same place as cofio…
And I wonder why it is so, since it comes from Latin anyway…doesn’t it?