To use “lan” here is a literal english to Welsh word for word translation that doesn’t always work. Wedi stemio is enough I think.
This isn’t really about learning Welsh, and is essentially entirely just for interest’s sake.
A question for our etymologists - does agor come from Greek or is it more likely an older link? I’m thinkong agora, as in agoraphobia.
Agoraphobia popped up in conversation today and it triggered this question. The likelihood of this trivia ever being useful…
Is this an open question?
Definitely! Please do discuss, i’d be really interested to hear
I have an irrational fear of questions like this @AnthonyCusack.
On a more serious note, it’s an interesting point. I’ve always assumed that Welsh “agor” came from Latin, like so many other Welsh words, but of course that’s completely incorrect! (Latin would be “aper”.) “Agor” definitely sounds Greek, and I wonder if there are many more Greek-sounding words in Welsh?
According to J. Morris Jones, A Welsh Grammar, Historical and Comparative (Oxford 1913), it’s ultimately from Proto-Indo-European n̥- (“negative”) + ǵʰer- (“to enclose”) and cognate with Cornish egeri, ygeri.
Oh that’s interesting. Thank you Siaron. I guess everything does ultimately come from PIE (ummmm pie). I guess Welsh and Greek, and as @Baruch highlights, the Latin are all just very similar to each other in this case. I won’t start claiming this is evidence the Welsh are descended from Helen of Troy!
I am trying to translate the simple sentence ‘Thomas is in town’ and I have ‘Mae Thomas yn y dre’ Is this correct? Thank you
yes, that’s correct.
This came up somewhere else recently, so I looked it up - apparently Greek ‘agora’ is distantly related to gyr ‘flock’ (in the sense of people flocking/gathering together for a market), whence gyrru for ‘drive’
I suppose, one can argue stemio is a literal translation from English to Welsh.
I do use stêm with strangers but with some mates we try to use synonyms to improve our Welsh like ager
Btw - Lan i ti - up to you … is similar but I hear it.
Interestingly, In Biology and Chemistry they teach ‘Anwedd’ for steam vapour of any compound/molecule turning from liquid to air. (I have a research background in biochem and thats what Ive seen as translation in Welsh unis)
However ! Anwedd as said in the street… is water condensed on a surface I think?! So a disconnect with academia Gulp
(cyddwysiad - vapour condensation - scientific term I seen)
As someone who has worked across Europe for research purposes, Ive noticed only here in Wales do I hear many people say “oh no thats a literary term” and dismiss much vocabulary… to be replaced by an obvious English word with -io on the end. Not having a go at community Welsh, just languages like French take the opposite mindset of promoting literary vocab.
I recall my grandparents saying words in speech that are now called literary by acquaintances /friends -and these were grandparents who still used english in speech like ‘straight’ ymlaen instead of syth ymlaen or carretsh cabbage/ sietin from shedding. Etc
Ive used some mid walian family words now and get called a purist or ‘thas posh’
I met a Bethesda girl who thought casau and caru was purist word… and used hateio and lyfio instead. Feels as if perfectly decent Welsh is viewed negatively sometimes … I just love lapping up as many new words as possible. Positive mindset
My comment was purely for the use of lan in this way. After all meet up = cyfarfod/cwrdd, wake up = deffro/dihuno, speed up = cyflymu, etc. with not a lan in sight.
I agree - we need slightly more substantial evidence for this obvious fact before we go public in the press.
Hehe Caerdroyw is Troy in Welsh? Is that a modern invention like ‘gorwel’ or an older memory
First citation for Caer Droea in the GPC is 16th century, so it’s at least that old.
Irrefutable! A mention 3000 years later must prove that everyone in Wales is Greco-Trojan. I’m satisfied by this, @garethrking?
Good enough for me, Anthony - go forth now, all and sundry, and spread the word…
Quick question - should I carry on with Duolingo now I’ve signed up here?
Yes if you want, lots of people do both. A word of warning though - in the SSiW course you will come across lots of spoken forms which are perfectly valid, but Duolingo will tell you they are incorrect because Duolingo is based on the ‘dictionary’ forms.