Writing a booklet about the SSi Method - looking for your experiences

@Matilda @Sam84 Me too - I like to sit with my full attention on the lesson, often with my eyes closed. I can review old lessons while doing something else (but not driving, I’ve tried that and I feel too distracted). I especially can’t deal with the long sentences if I’m doing something else.

@Matilda If you are doing the old Courses - which are called Course 1, etc. and have Lessons, then there are listening (and speaking) practices that go with them. They are listed under Daily Practices, and every week there is a new set of 5 practices. There is one set that you listen to after finishing Lesson 6, one set that you listen to after finishing Course 1, and another set to listen to after you finish Course 2. If you are doing the newer Levels, which are called Level 1, etc and have Challenges, then there is a listening practice after Challenge 5 which you listen to until you get to Challenge 10, one after Challenge 10, one after Challenge 15, one after Challenge 20, and one after Challenge 25.

If you need more help to find them (via the website or app) let me know and I can elaborate further.

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I should have mentioned that I was using the word “level” in a generic sense. Perhaps I should have said “stage”, to avoid confusion! So I’m not yet convinced I’m doing the new material.

But thanks to your explanations @aran and @AnnaC, I feel I now at least have a map, so to speak, showing the way through the SSiW forest. Sometime soon I’ll have a close look at this map, compare it with the audio lessons I downloaded a year or so ago, and figure out my “You are here” spot on it.

@AnnaC and @Sam84, it’s good to know I’m not the only one here who can only learn a language if there are no distractions. I suspect there’s more than a few of us like this, and I wanted to “out” myself just in case there was someone reading about all the clever multitasking SSiWers and thinking “I can’t do that. If they can walk/jog/iron/drive/juggle AND learn a language at the same time, they must be super smart, linguistically gifted people, and if that’s what it takes - well, I’ve always been hopeless at languages, I failed French in school, so I must be too thick or too untalented or too old to learn a new language.” You’re not. I firmly believe that.

To anyone I haven’t convinced yet: if you can read and completely understand what I’ve just written, then you’ve already learned one language well enough to read it. You are capable of learning a second, at least well enough to speak it.

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Aran
The intensive course sounds great. I want to progress from going to coffee mornings to learn Welsh to goinf as a social event.
Could we have a short chat on skype for you to assess if it would help me achieve this goal

I started using the original southern courses around October 2015. I nearly finished the first course, then my mp3 thingy broke and it took me a whole year to get around to getting a new one :smiley: Just last week I finished the final lesson, now I’ve moved on to the new challenges (still southern) and am up to challenge 8.

At first I was repeating lessons until I became confident. After reading more about the advantages of a faster approach (on here and on the Accelerated Welsh FB page) I tried to move on without repeating anything. But my progress was quite stop-start, and I have had to cave and repeat some lessons because I got really confused (a recent example: while going through the old course 3 I found I couldn’t distinguish between some of the present/future short forms and the past ones, and only when repeating the relevant lessons did I realise that there is just a very subtle difference in one vowel between some of the forms, e.g. welofe/welefe - apologies for that spelling, I have had zero practice at writing in Welsh!). Also, while I know mistakes are useful etc etc, and while I can recognise that I do make progress even while making lots of mistakes, I simply don’t find it very pleasurable to go through lessons where I’m hardly getting anything right - that has resulted in me being reluctant to do any more lessons. Sometimes I’ve got around that simply by forcing myself to do them even when I don’t feel like it, sometimes I’ve just listened to the lessons without trying to join in by saying the Welsh sentences (although eventually I find I can’t resist having a go), and sometimes I’ve taken a complete break and just listened to BBC Radio Cymru instead. I generally manage to avoid using the pause button, which is not that convenient anyway while I’m driving, but also i find that pausing doesn’t necessarily lead to me getting the words out any faster anyway. While doing the first set of courses, I didn’t really bother with the listening exercises (naughty, I know) - I just went through the lessons.

I have not found any of the pronunciation difficult at all. I come from Wales, albeit from a very non-Welsh-speaking area of Pembrokeshire, but I must have absorbed enough of an accent to have made speaking in Welsh feel quite natural. I live in England now but I am back in Wales quite a bit, and I find the experience of going into Wales and seeing Welsh everywhere gives me a little motivational boost whenever I’m flagging - I enjoy seeing the words which I’ve grown up thinking of as incomprehensible begin to make sense :slight_smile: Me and the kids give a little cheer when we pass the ‘Croeso i gymru’ sign on the A40.

One thing I have been putting off is finding someone to speak Welsh with. I feel too silly, and am afraid I won’t know how to say anything useful at all (please don’t take that personally, course authors). I’ve failed to capitalise on opportunities to speak Welsh when faced with people who are obviously Welsh speakers in shops etc. But I am going to Skype some of the guys on this forum. Might just have to have some wine beforehand.

In general, though, I’m really enjoying the experience, and I have found that now is such a great time to learn Welsh - there seem to be so many resources devoted to helping and encouraging learners. I love the sense of seeing a new layer of the country I grew up in. The whole experience also made me reflect on what the value is of minority languages in general - I’ve written a magazine article about this which will be published in the next few months - will share a link here when it is in case anyone is interested.

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^^This! I’ve just started doing the new levels, having recently finished the old courses, and I’m powering through the early levels and really enjoying finding out how much I can say. Maybe the lesson is something like this: repeating lessons is not useful (or not as useful as most people think) for making progress in learning the language, but it is useful as a way to pat oneself on the back and see how far we’ve come. Working through new lessons, it’s sometimes hard to avoid thinking, ‘Gah, I don’t know anything’. Re-doing old material that was once really difficult is a nice way to discover that some of the material did stick, after all.

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Hi Conrad - sure, should be able to fit that in at some time - send me a private message with your Skype details and we’ll figure it out… :slight_smile:

@rebecca - thanks for that detailed feedback - really, really helpful! Getting that kind of emotional detail is hugely useful… :star: :star2:

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My landline is 01646 600436
My skype name is conrad.bryant1
I do not know if you need more information as previously I have only used it to talk to my son.
Any time suits me as I am retired
My mobile number is 07748116669 if you need to contact me to set up a time for us to talk.
I do not take calls incoming on my landline
Conrad

I’ll send a connect request in the morning… :slight_smile:

Introduction I chose to learn Welsh for the pleasure of it, because I am familiar with the country from childhood holidays. I discovered SSiW on the Internet, tried it and liked it.

North or South? Doing both! Sounds a bit inefficient, but it’s actually good practice. As I’m likely to find myself in the North more often, I regard the North version as my main one. I do the South largely to become acquainted with the regional variations. I would probably use North in speech.

Courses or Levels? Started Course 1. About halfway through I discovered Level 1. So I finished Course 1 and then did Level 1. And I’m doing the same for Course/Level 2. They complement each other and effectively permit revision with fresh material. Yes, it takes time, but I need to go over material a lot anyway when learning a language: it’s the way they wired my brain.

You went through most of our material in three or four years Taking its time. Over 2 years to arrive halfway through Course 2. But I’m in no rush, and I learn at the speed I wish within my time limitations (like most of us, I have a job, family, other interests, life’s problems…). Otherwise I stop enjoying it.

Go through the lessons without repeating any Sometimes I can go through about 3 lessons straight without repeating. Usually I do North a couple of times and South once.

Not use the pause button Rarely use it. I learn whilst doing housework.

do the listening exercises Yes, and it makes a difference.

get a conversation partner I need to.

understand different accents No problem. I think that doing North and South helps here.

put off reading I’d like to start eventually.

accept all the different ways of saying the same thing Again, doing both versions helps.

avoid worrying about grammar I like a BIT of grammar. In its descriptive, rather than prescriptive, role.

getting used to saying R Probably sounds dreadful!

getting used to saying Ll I try! If you ever speak to me in Welsh, you may find yourself discretely wiping your face with a tissue :slight_smile:

getting used to saying Ch No problem. Familiar with it from the Scottish “Loch”, plus I speak Hebrew which uses the ‘ch’ sound a lot.

General observations:
I think that everyone should learn in his/her own way. No two people will ever learn the same way. So I regard the SSiW “rules” as guidance lines and not hard rules.

The one SSiW rule that I advise everyone NEVER to break is “Don’t Worry”. I can’t overemphasise this, and I frequently remind myself. It really helps.

The frequent encouragement at the beginning and end of the lessons is great and has a big psychological impact.

I need to chill out occasionally and go a few days without Welsh. I come back with a vengeance.

New material just will not sink in when I’m tired. Almost a waste of time for me. On several occasions I’ve done a lesson and felt like just quitting the whole damn thing. The next day, refreshed, I redo the lesson and it’s a whole new, positive experience, and the material really gets learned.

Every now and then I feel that I need to go over a lesson several times, with the pause button, to revise everything learned until then. It’s not a reflection on the difficulty of that particular lesson. It’s the need to revise the material accumulated at that point. Very good technique for me.

I frequently check a word in my Welsh dictionary if I’m not sure of the pronunciation.

What would I like to see that isn’t there?
Exercises translating from Welsh into English would probably help me tremendously.

A bit of grammar, as mentioned above.

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Terrific input, Baruch - diolch yn fawr iawn! :star: :star2:

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Yes! This! Thank you for reminding us, Baruch.

Without that encouragement, I’m honestly not sure I ever would have persevered beyond the first few lessons. I can’t speak for @aran on the North lessons because I’ve only listened to part of the first one, but @Iestyn on the South lessons is extremely reassuring and encouraging. And funny.

Once I was feeling exhausted and thinking my brain was about to explode, and Iestyn said, with a grin you could hear, “I bet you’re thinking ‘I can’t take this any more!’, aren’t you?” Yes, that’s exactly what I had been thinking!

Another time, again when I was struggling badly, he read my mind and said something like,“You think this is tough? It was once even harder, but they said it was against the Declaration of Human Rights or something, and made me change it.” I burst out laughing. I love moments like these. They relieve the tension and make me realise I’m NOT stupid, I’m not the first person to struggle, and I won’t be the last.

It makes for a terrific learning atmosphere. Doing the South lessons with Iestyn and Cat is like sitting in a pub sharing a pint with them. You got it right? Great! Let’s drink! You got it wrong? Ah, don’t worry. You’ll get it next time. Drink anyway.

This is in stark contrast to the attitude of someone whose opinions I read on a forum some time ago. I have entirely forgotten which forum. It was just before I started using Duolingo to supplement my SSiW lessons, and I had been googling people’s opinions of it to see whether it was worth my time. Somehow I stumbled across a forum where this person was holding forth about the linguistic purity of the one true Welsh language and how important it was to maintain that purity and not let it be corrupted by learners or second-language speakers or users of colloquial Welsh expressions and borrowings from other languages. He heaped scorn on just about everyone involved in the teaching of Welsh, including his fellow first-language Welsh speakers who thought it was more important to encourage learners to try than to come down hard on them for not producing perfect Welsh every time or for using slang or borrowed words.

People tried to explain that language evolves over time, but he wasn’t having any of that. As far as he was concerned, the only people allowed to make changes to pure, academic-level Welsh were native Welsh speakers, and even then he was a bit sniffy about it, almost like they had to be approved by a Welsh version of the Académie française or something. Finally someone bluntly said to him, “If everyone thinks like you, Welsh will die anyway, because no one will speak it to your exacting standards, and you’ll end up in a room talking to yourself. Fortunately, everyone doesn’t think like you.”

I read that chap’s rants with open-mouthed astonishment. I had a wicked impulse to respond with my butchered, badly-spelled Welsh, liberally sprinkled with English to make up for the Welsh words I don’t know yet. But my better angels persuaded me not to. Other people were already taking him on, more eloquently than I could.

But gosh, I am so glad he is not in charge of SSiW! Can you imagine what it would be like? There would probably be an exam after each lesson, and you’re not allowed to progress to the next lesson unless you score 100%.

No. That is not the way to get people to take the leap and start learning a new language. Teachers need to provide encouragement, gentle correction, acceptance of mistakes, and good humour. Fortunately for us, SSiW has all of those in spades.

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Diolch yn fawr, Matilda - very interesting, and I completely agree with you on the subject of linguistic ‘purity’… :slight_smile:

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Hi Aran. We have not talked yet but I have looked at comments after the 5 day intensive and also the videonafter the first session. As I have already completed the first and second “challenges” and go to several coffi mornings in WElsh each month I thinkI need more than what has been done so faron the new courses. Not bragging just facts.
I think what I will do now (Iam retired and live alone) is do my own intensive course based on your video explaining the system. I have all the course data downloaded onto an mp3 player. From an old course I did (evening classes) I have flash cardsand so can do the making up sentances from flash cards session using them.
I will start in a few days and log what I do and give you a report later.
Incidentally I did a bootcsamp with the south WAles course a few years ago.
If you have any comments or suggestions I will be delighted to hear them.
I have put my Spanish course with you on hold till I get through this self imposed Welsh intensive coursethen I will apply the same method to that course.
Conrad

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That sounds like a great idea - I’ll look forward very much to hearing how it goes for you… :slight_smile:

I will keep a detailed log andsendit to you when I have worked through all the lessons again.

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Hi, I’m a very new “SSi er” around 4 days now. Having listened to the introduction and advice about not using the pause button etc I struggled through lesson 1 and have just done that again. My biggest problem is that I can’t get my responses out before the lady comes in with hers and completely flummoxes me. I need a little more “thinking time” to give my response, not a lot, probably a few seconds

For me, personally , I have to use that pause button to enable me to respond before I get over talked if that makes sense .

Hope that helps a little

Pete

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Thanks for that, Pete… :slight_smile:

It’s important that whatever you do feels good enough to keep on doing it - but do keep pushing yourself, because the more you do, the faster you’ll be able to produce the phrases…:slight_smile:

I found the one time I tried to not the use the pause button I found I got so panicky I really found it unpleasant. I don’t think I use it that much, but I need to know it’s there. I haven’t repeated any lessons, but sometimes I have a look at the notes of the previous sessions. I did start a list of the things I forget most often but haven’t kept it up.

Maybe when I have completed them all I will go back and try them again with no pause. At the moment I am another one who cannot imagine cooking, ironing etc while practising, but I think one of the strengths (for me) is to make you work at the limit of what you can cope with - hence I think it might be worth going through it all again from the start in more difficult situations when I’m ready.

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I’ve seen that happen (just once or twice) in one-on-one work - and it’s definitely better to pause than to start screaming! :wink:

When you’re ready to go back through - it might be interesting for you to test running back down rather than going up from the beginning - either one at a time, or skipping - so 25, 20, 15 - just to give yourself a sense of where your levels of control are, without immediately committing to doing the whole level again…:slight_smile:

Yes screaming is best avoided! My plan is to do one lesson a day until finishing level 2, then level 3 if it’s ready or work through all the old courses (probably not backwards?), so it will be a while before I consider repeating any! Maybe by then I won’t feel I need to, but I do think for someone like me practicing producing the language automatically is important as I am naturally reader and listener and will spend all my time on that given a choice.

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