You know you are learning Welsh when

Well, for me, it would be the ‘fy’ I’d query. not the ddraig!1 Oh, and I read ‘faint’ back there and thought. “How many what?” before I realised it was English!!
Oh, and @stella, why is a frog so necessary?? And, grovel, I don’t know what llyfant is!!
p.s. Oh, and I do agree that children speaking Cymraeg and Russian but no English is a lovely thought!! (Although probably many did in that town, founded I think, by a chap called Hughes. I forget the details.)

1 Like

My Gareth King dictionary says that a llyfant is a name used in the North for both frogs and toads (with a distinction of llyfant du for a toad and llyfant melyn for a frog). And in the South llyfant means specifically a toad. I love frogs and toads very much, and “broga/llyfant bach” is the endearing term I use with family members and people I like, and that’s how they call me, so, as you see, it’s a very important word for me!

What is this town? I’ve never heard of any Russian-Welsh settlement, was there one?

2 Likes

Oh dear… in 1800 and something, a Welshman was, I think, encouraged by the then Tsar or Tsarina to settle in Russia and set up works to make…er… iron? steel? a coal mine?? I’ll try googling it!! It is a bit of Welsh history which I came across and… my memory does not improve with age. The name was originally his, but has been ‘Russianified’… if I can find more, I’ll let you know!!

1 Like

I think it may be “llyffant” (with double-f), although as we know there are often variant spellings in Welsh.

Oh wow, this is very interesting, I’ll research it. It thrills me to think there might have been some Welsh settlement in Russia!

And yes, you’re right, it’s llyffant, of course. I can’t spell. Very annoying, considering I was the queen of spelling, pan o’n i’n ifanc.

From article: (It is now Donetsk. Is that Ukraine?)
There were links between Merthyr Tydfil and Russia from the time of Sir John Josiah Guest and Lady Charlotte when the Dowlais Works supplied iron of the developing railways and a Russian Arch-Duke visited Dowlais. It is hardly surprising that when Imperial Russia wished to develop its own industry and
exploit its mineral resources that a Welshman should be invited to lend technical expertise. Such assistance came from John Hughes, an engineer born in Merthyr Tydfil around 1815 whose father was an engineer with the Cyfarthfa Works.
I hope the following link will show you:
http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/hughesovka.htm

There are also other mentions in Google.

4 Likes

It’s the territory where war is going on now. In the south-east of Ukraine. I have friends there, maybe when the war is over I will be able to visit, I would love to visit. I wonder if he taught people to speak Welsh!

1 Like

This sounds very beautiful in Russian.

In English calling someone “you little toad” may well provoke a very interesting reaction.

If I dared to say to Eirwen “I love you my little toad” she may well frog-march me out of the house!!

I’m trying to summon up the courage to say to Eirwen “Dwy’n dy garu dy llyfant bach” - and while I’m laughing thinking about it, I don’t think I’ll be laughing if I dare say it.

Justin

4 Likes

I dare say, “llyffant fach” might work better, I get a bit upset when my cariad address me with the masculine forms of Russian and Welsh adjectives:)
Well, not all Russian people would appreciate a “moya malenkaya jaba”, but my own family and close friends have already accepted that it’s the destiny to be called toads and crocodiles.
I wonder now if there are any peculiar endearing terms in Welsh that foreigners might find strange.

2 Likes

It can very much depend on how you deliver the message:

“you toad”" said sternly would be generally be regarded as an insult,

“you are a toad but you are MY toad” said sweetly might be regarded as a compliment.

I’m afraid that “Dwy’n dy garu du llyffant fach” didn’t work its magic with Eirwen. I’m now trying to get back in her good graces!!

Justin

1 Like

Oh, mae’n ddrwg gen i, Justin!

1 Like

“Cariad” or “'nghariad i” might be safer :-). There is also “del”, which I believe is like “love”, or “dear”, but literally means “pretty” (although I tend to think of it as “delightful” (or “delicious” :slight_smile: ).

2 Likes

Oh, I think I’ve heard this one in a S4C drama. Is it also used for talking to random people, not just husbands/wives?

1 Like

When I’ve heard it used on S4C, it seemed to be between people who knew each other fairly closely / family members.

My family seems to use ‘del’ to talk to/about children. They also use it as an adjective to mean ‘cute’ or ‘sweet’ (e.g. “ci del”, or, more regularly, “awwww… del, de?”). This is up in the Gog, if that makes any difference…

1 Like

I remember I was watching Now you’re talking, and a girl there was interviewing people in the streets and a woman addressed her as “cariad” (in the context: Do you have children? No, cariad, just cats). Then I was watching S4C and there, again, someone addresses a person who was evidently not a boyfriend or a close friend by saying some word that meant “love”, maybe it was “del”. Which made me wonder whether you can use any of these terms for random people, like “love” in English.

I think it depends where you are, as, in fact, it does in England. In parts of London, ‘ducks’ is used, or certainly used to be!! (Yes, plural for singular person!!). We’ve mentioned ‘Lovely’ and ‘My Lovely’ in SE Wales, ‘bach’ (for both sexes) in parts of S. Wales, bach and fach… I’m not saying ‘del’ isn’t used, but I’ve never heard it in the south!
p.s. Sorry I was so pedantic, it didn’t occcur to me to consider typos and realise ‘llyffant’ was really likely to follow ‘broga’!! (Mind, I didn’t know you had a thing about amphibians and would call me a frog if we met!! (Maybe a newt???).

Oh, that “ducks” thing just made me smile, sound nice:) I think I’ll just stick with bach and fach for now in Welsh, so as not to call surprise someone by being too affectionate! In Russian I use “moya radost’” (my joy) even with 40 year old students and it’s perfectly acceptable!

If I learn how to say “newt” in Welsh, I’m very likely to include it in my list of endearing terms, thank you for the idea! Newts are fantastic, I always had my pockets full of them as a child.

2 Likes

Wasn’t that cruel? I thought they liked to be in water, or at least damp???
p.s. madfal dwr or madfal y dwr??

No, I would put them in a jar as soon as I got home, and it was only a 5-minute walk from the field where they lived!

And, so that people don’t get angry at me for going so much off-topic in this wonderful thread: “You know that you’re learning Welsh when you look at a page in your grammar book that seems to have a list of names of elves, and then you understand that these are the subjunctive forms of Welsh verbs:)”

3 Likes