Ahhh, but I might have to rescind that advice - because what you’ve just described here suggests VERY strongly to me that you’re not a higher repetition learner, in fact - it’s the perfectionism - the way you flew through 1 and 2 is enough to show me that everything is working fine, but you’re going to need a higher tolerance for mistakes. This sentence in particular:
I am getting most of the sentences right first time in the pause, though normally have to pause the button.
is the sentence of a person who shouldn’t even be repeating the lessons at all, let alone multiple times. It’s now my working theory that you’re actually VERY good at this, and if you can bring yourself to trust the process, hammer ahead without repeating anything (on the grounds that it will still be there later if you really want), I suspect you’re not very far away from starting to surprise yourself…
To continue with @siaronjames 's inspired analogy with playing the guitar - you DO need to know the fingering and how to produce the correct notes, but you DON’T need to know the physics of the sound waves and frequencies that underlie those notes. Similarly, I would say, you DO need to know what we cal the ‘surface grammar’ of a language, but you DON’T need to know what we call the ‘deep grammar’, which may of course be interesting in itself, but is not relevant to achieving fluency in the language.
I do of course thoroughly approve of engagement with grammar, though.
That’s good to know. I was pretty sure I Wasn’t a high repetition learner but lesson four really got to me. Ok I’ll try to take your advice Aran As you have all people should know how your course works! Thanks again for the encouragement it really means a lot to me I do get rather easily discouraged by things.
I should probably clarify that when I said I was getting them right first time I meant that now I’m getting them right first time having repeated the lesson more than once. I did fly through one and two though it’s true. __
Indeed and it is. The Celtic languages were not captured in written form until after the Romans. People learned through immersion and exposure. I start at an evening class next week, all things said here make me truly glad that this community is my support and language teulu/family.
Yep, next meet up is on Wed Feb 27th in Hawkes House in Thornbury at 14:30. There should be a good mixture of Fluent speakers and learners too. Plus, we may even break out into song at the end. Besides that though, It’s just a coffee and chat, probably till around 16:00. Let me know if you are interested.
I really am very basic and will struggle to communicate in welsh, it depends if it’s ok to just come and listen and maybe practice some basics and meet other learners. Does everyone only speak Welsh in the meet up or do people who are learners use English too?
The celts did write, even if there isn’t anywhere near as much that was written or survived as there is in Latin or ancient Greek etc.
There are a lot of Gaulish and Celtiberian inscriptions and some Lepontic ones as well, which are either pre-roman or contemporary with it. There are even two Celtic curse tablets from Bath, which are considered Celtic, but there’s some disagreement on what they mean and whether they were British Celtic or continental like Gaulish.
They tend to be mainly names etc, but there is a lot of other words between them, for the academics to have created a decent corpus for Gaulish. I think a lot of the early Irish was written in Ogham - which people know. how to read. Not sure how far back Irish texts go, but quite a bit earlier than the earliest discovered written Welsh etc
This is a bit of 1st century BC Celtiberian:
and this is some first century AD Gaulish
also
and these ones mentioned here, that some claim to be Celtic (there is a difference of opinion, between the academics here) , predate Latin.
Hi Frances, There’s a lot of Welsh spoken, some local attendees are fluent, others I’d say semi fluent due to lack of use. Everyone has something to learn, even ‘fluent’ North Walians learn by speaking to South Walians and vice versa. Also, there was a range of learners, from I’d say intermediate (holding a whole, if limited conversation), plus a couple of less advanced learners. So, I’d give it a go, there should be enough of us to talk to, so by chatting to different people, you shouldn’t feel ill at ease if you have to speak English. It’s a balance I admit, because we all want to either enjoy speaking Welsh, or improve our Welsh, but that includes encouraging newbies as well. You could drop me an email if you want to come along, britpgj@gmail.com and I’ll then make sure you are kept in the loop that way in addition to the info I will put on the Forum here regarding dates etc.
Hello Frances. Sorry to hear of your difficulties.
Have you tried Duolingo? It is very easy and straightforward to use and builds up the language piece by piece. I find it a great aid alongside SSiW and would definitely advocate you try that in addition to SSiW. You will be amazed how quickly things fall into place.
Perhaps ‘encapsulated’ or codified might have been a better choice. Yes, Ogham was actually still in(rare judging by extant samples) use when the Sasenach came in, as odd spot of the day.
I didn’t like duo lingo thought it’s probably ok for vocabulary. I learned how to Say hello to Dragon… Not of great practical use as I really don’t want to wake him up before his time. But in all seriousness yes, I’ll probably go back there to look at vocabulary some time.
Thank you. I might wait till I’m a bit further on with ssiw though it is nice to be in a Welsh speaking environment, that encourages me to learn more than just talking to myself
My experience with Duolingo Welsh is almost identical!
Except it’s the nos da, draig that stuck in my brain - which is better, because I think also dragons like to be put to bed gently.
I’m so sorry you had that experience! It really does sound completely bizarre! Who on earth would be teaching mutations in a complete beginners class in the first place?! I am a language teacher myself (majored in French during my B.Ed. and taught French to children in the public school system in Canada as well as having my TEFL -Teaching English as a Foreign Language certification) and I took many evening Welsh classes when I lived in Wales; and I can tell you right now that what you experienced was NOT the norm. I don’t say this lightly, but I really think you should speak to someone in authority about what’s going on in that classroom. Besides the fact that the material seems incredibly advanced for a complete beginners class, the tutor is clearly not cut out for teaching anything, let alone language.
Please don’t give up. Keep going with SSiW - their courses really do work, and the support you’ll receive here is second to none. If you still want to go to an evening class as well, there are some questions you need to ask yourself or others before you sign up:
Can I take the course from a different organization or, at minimum, a different teacher?
What is the curriculum of the course I wish to take? (no self-respecting organization will not give you at least a course outline)
Do I feel that curriculum is reasonable for my level?
Once you start the course - is the tutor actually following the curriculum?
