Tatjana - progress reports

Welsh General / Questions
#576

Well, cruising through the old lessons for the 3rd (or what amount of) time already I all of a sudden, repeating structures with “teimlo” got the idea … (oh, ja, idea of my own again!)

I know (of course, by now I just have to know that, don’t I) that “I am tired” is said “Dw i wedi blino.” but what if I want to express that statement the other way like “I feel tired.” Is it possible to say “Dwi’n teimlo yn blino.” or such thing just doesn’t exist in Cymraeg?

Might be stupid thinking but it just clicked and I have to ask. :slight_smile:

#577

Dw i’n credu mae’n bosib i dweud : bod yn flinedig . felly mae’n bosib i dweud “teimlo’n flinedig”.
I believe it’s possible to say : be tired, maybe it’s possible to say “feeling tired”.

Not at all sure how correct my welsh is but it was an interesting question, and the only way we will improve is keep trying.

Cheers J.P.

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#578

Diolch yn fawr iawn @ramblingjohn

#579

This, mostly - John’s right that you could say ‘Dwi’n teimlo’n flinedig’, but it’s a much less common approach than ‘I feel tired’ in English.

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#580

Well then … I’ll stay with “wedi blino”.

It’s just that ideas running through my head all the time. We, in Slovene can say both and both is equally common:

  • “Utrujen(a) sem.” would be something like “Dw i wedi blino.” despite we don’t say “I have tired” but just as English equvivalent “I am tired.” Oh, and that (a) means feminine. Woman says “Utrujena sem.” and man says “Utrujen sem.”
  • “Počutim se utrujeno”, “Počutim se utrujenega.” is something like @ramblingjohn’s version of feeling tired so “I feel tired.” Again "Počutim se utrujeno (or utrujena, both is right) is woman’s statement while “Počutim se utrujenega.” would be man’s statement.

That’s why it clicked to me in Cymraeg migh tbe just the same although it isn’t used much.

Thank you to both for your answers @aran and @ramblingjohn.

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#581

And if you’ve come to this thread to see Tatjana’s progression over time, you’ll want to finish by reading what she had to say after she came to Bootcamp:

:slight_smile:

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#582

Let’s say a word about my learning again …

… no, no, I’m not complaining, just describing stuff, that’s all …

I’m continuing doing my lessons (ummm, well, lessons repetitions) where I’ve finished before going to bootcamp and now I’m finding myself speaking much worse then I did at the bootcamp or even before. I know this is not the lack of knowledge, confidence or something like this, but simple fact that I want to implement the stuff I’m (re)learning in the lessons in the conversations and to be honest this doesn’t go very well.

I had conversation with @brigitte yesterday as we have it (more or less) every Saturday and not only I’ve talked quite messy trying to use things I’ve just re-learnt but I all of a sudden couldn’t remember the words I should know already. Well, but it’s neccessary to mention that our conversations are always very complex and for averaga learner a bit “hard” as we talk about literally everything - from weather all the way to babi bach and her developement, school and happenings around the globe - so it’s not strange there are many words we (maybe) both are not knowing them.

However my sentence formations are aweful lately (and I believe at the time I was in Cymru they were not any better but I just passed that fact for some (maybe confidence) reason)). And, yah, my memory is still lousy and I just have to laugh upon my forgetness as I find almost every lesson I’m re-doing as totally new one.

And there’s one more thing: Past tense in any form is aweful, really. The form “Wnes i/ti…” (simple forms of past tense from first old lessons) is so rooted in me I just can’t switch my brains to use anything else no matter I try. And with trying to say past tense sentences different (more common way maybe) it causes my sentences are real mess. I came to idea that now it’s maybe the right time ot write all forms down and try to remember this way how they should be used and when. That in Slovenian language we use mostly only one form of past tense now really comes on my way and is really disturbing thing in deed.

Any other idea how to wipe out that “simple past tense” form? …

#583

Make a list of the alternative examples of the past tense that you’d like to use more often/naturally.

Put them all together into two or three paragraphs talking about your life.

Record yourself reading it once a day, until you can record it all without looking at the text.

:slight_smile:

#584

Phew …

Let’s see how it works. …

Challenge nr. 19 … :slight_smile:

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#585

Well, I did practically nothing (regarding lessons and learning) after the bootcamp, if I’m honest, except of talking once a week for aproximately an hour and a half via Skype and writing some occassional posts on Twitter and Facebook. Might be life itself affected this as tere’s not much energy left when I come home from work but today I finally repeated lesson 17 of Course 2 (what should be prety much in my brains) only to find out it’s all went blank and as If I never would even listen what to learn this lesson at all.

No, I’m not moaning despite so many not quite pleasant things happened in this periode that I’m quite psychically worn out, but obviously taking a break, what concerns learning Welsh (or any other language for that matter) isn’t a healthy thing for me. Sometimes I feel like I’ll just have to repeat all courses over and over again. This is the 3rd or 4th time already (to be honest I don’t count anymore) I’m running through the whole material and every time I come back it seams everything totally new to me, just like if it would never be heard and learnt before. Yes, Course 1 is easy, Level 1 a bit less, Course 2 is mostly total blank. Now, I came to level 2 Challenge 17 before other Southern Challenges were available and I just don’t have the needed courage to go further … I’m stuck in learning and forgeting and learning again (remembering quite less) and forgeting again and learning and … (over and over again)…

Sometimes I really wonder how could I survive a bootcamp and all next days after it majority in Welsh even without any terror and being frightened or frustrated (yes I was frustrated once but it was not due to Cymraeg, believe me). I understood practically everything and was able to say (despite with very simple sentences) many things. I can hold an hour and a half of the conversation with @brigitte every week (and the range of the areas of interest we are “discussing” is really wide, believe me), I can prety much understand majority of Growth Club content, I dare to dream about translating the greatest Slovene love poem in Cymraeg one day soon, however I can’t learn and remember majority of expressions from Course 2! This is really kind of amazing.

And, no, “Challenge 19” didn’t happen. I’ve started but never finished properly but, for that matter, when I try to write something on facebook or twitter, i’m trying to use more complex forms of past tense. I actually struggle with shortenings as I don’t know from where they derive and this for I for many don’t know what they actually mean. All of a sudden it seams to me like there would be hundreeds fo them. I’ve written them all down from the course guides and it seams so big amount of them to me. :slight_smile:

Well, sorry, I just had to put this here … and … as always in the recent periode - those are only observations of happenings not real moaning though. I have nothing to moan about as guilt is purely mine. I was lazy but still, even at the time I did course daily, there were the same blanks in my memory so I’m not quite sure lazyness has all to do with this.

Ymarfer? You will say I’m talking nonsense, but I’ve started even thing in Cymraeg when my thoughts are related to Cymru, Cymraeg and all related … and I do think about all this quite a lot …

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#586

Here’s the thing you should be focusing on, Tatjana. If you’re tired, you will always find the materials tougher.

But no, you’re NOT forgetting everything. We know this by now - YOU know this by now. You will NOT need to keep repeating the courses. If you want to go through a period of revision, do the last two lessons from each course only. But the two most valuable things you could be doing are:

Listen to Radio Cymru every day

Have a conversation in Welsh every week.

:slight_smile:

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#587

I can’t remember the short forms of the past, either, having done the long forms much earlier, in my class. But I think I’d understand them if I heard them, and what’s wrong with us sticking to ‘Nes i’ as long as people can understand us?

Laziness isn’t a word I associate with you, Tatjana! I dream of the day when I’ll be able to speak for an hour and a half in Welsh with a more advanced speaker, so llongyfarchiadau!

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#588

A conversation of an hour and a half a week, and doing a bit of writing?
There are many people learning Welsh in Wales who don’t exert themselves that much, unfortunately!
I know that is faint praise, but I would have thought you are doing enough there to more than keep your Welsh ticking over!:blush:

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#589

Thank you all three. I’ll try to go with what @aran says. I did it once already and then stopped for (honestly) don’t know what reason.

Thank you for your encouragement. Well, today the things in my real life cleared a bit so maybe I’ll find that energy and will again in future days to do things as I once used to.

Writing @owainlurch, still means a lot of revision of the sentences berfore I really post them on social media but the main thing is that I do message on my own first and then I’m trying to revew it and not just putting it into (let’s say) Google Translate and copy/paset whatever I get out. However for now, I stick with what I know I’ve learnt and what sounds (looks) familiar to me always having in mind what I would say in what way not aiming to do some “artistic” or too formal thing out of the whole thing. So, yes, you’re right. When doing this I actually have the feeling I’m (if even in small amounts) learning the language.

Thank you @BronwenLewis. Well, probably I can manage to hold an hour and a half long conversation because I and @brigitte kind of know each other that well by now that we mostly know the way we talk. Maybe, if I’d speak with someone other I’d have harder times to hold so long conversation, however on the other hand if I’ve got the courage to just plunge into the caffee in Caerdydd to order my coffee expecting someone would say something more then just “bore da” and then slight appology that they don’t speak Cymraeg, and if I managed (also back in Caerdydd) the 2 hours conversation with my FB friend who I never had seen before and (I believe) he’s Cymro Cymraeg, then maybe there would be not too much of the difference. Well, but I have to admit that with that FB friend the first few minutes I was a bit frustrated maybe simply because I didn’t quite know what to expect. It was a blast though. I don’t doubt you’d be able to hold at least 50 minutes or an hour of conversation in Cymraeg. You (as much as I could hear/see in bootcamp) have huge vocabulary and great way of expressing yourself no matter what field of conversation you are going in. You need to be confident and trust yourself, that’s it. :slight_smile:

@aran after I’ve written this I’ve watched your presentation of your intensity learning method and I was almost sorry I’ve written whatever. All of a sudden I felt like “What should I moan about at all?” but, well, here we are … Once a month every one or two final lessons of each course, you’ve said once. I guess i just have to return to this habit again, doing some writing and listening along with that. Yup, that’s it! Obviously sometimes I need a bit of a push to remember what goes along well … :slight_smile:

Diolch i bawb.

3 Likes
#590

Well, here we are after exactly 2 months 4 hours and 2 minutes with posting a new post here.

I was lazy last 2 months, even too lazy sometimes despite I’ve twitted and FBed quite a lot and some longer posts then just 140 characters which were more complex (as I had to search for the words and establish how to use them properly), and eventually some listening to Cymraeg (whatever Cymraeg) on the bus when driving home. My excuse for being lazy is I was really extreamly tired and these holidays we just enjoyed (3 days in total) were balsam to my tired soul.

But as kind of New year’s resolution (despite I don’t do them for quite a long time already) I started my (repeating) journey of learning (well … re-learning) Cymraeg again. So my today’s lesson was more listening then speaking, more chasing words then saying them and more being in owe with expressions I’ve just forgot they exist. And at the first glace I felt my progress went a step back not forward despite I’ve talked almost entirely in Cymraeg for 2 and a half hours yesterday. Yup, talking to someone really is something different then doing lessons and it might be I’m a bit too careless about how I speak (what way I mean). Will try to be more careful to implement all my (already gained) knolwledge into conversation in the future.

I won’t moan about how not satisfied I was when finishing lesson as it’s entirely my fault the result was not in accordance to my expectation but, well, I ended lesson 21 of Course 2 a bit frustrated and I established I just have to stop being lazy and do something more every day.

Frustrated as I was there came the surprise which made my day entirely and blown all my frustrations and bad feelings away. To my surprise (obviously I forgot that magnificent part of the lesson doing it the first time) in Lesson 21 of Course 2 there’s no musical outro but YAY! @Iestyn’s “didi di barabara ba…” and @anon86454181’s a bit more quiet singing! Hilarious to the bits! Iestyn and Cat thank you for this little piece of happy singing in deed! This is the most hilarious moment of all 137 lessons of Cymraeg I’ve done! When it will be hard in the future learning process and I’d be frustrated this is one thing I’ll remember for eternaty, this light jazzy singing!

So instead of being frustrated ahead of doing another lesson tomorrow because today’s didn’t go just quite well, I think I’m just at the edge to make one very silly promise again. No, no , no Tatjana, not yet … naaaaaaaaaaa! :slight_smile: OK. I won’t make it yet. Maybe next time!

Thank you 1000 times SSiW! :slight_smile:

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#591

Short forms…oh how they plagued me for so long.

wnes i something…wnes i anything…great!

then, des i, weles i…but i certainly didn’t conquer.

It got worse…es i, clywes i, ges i…oh hang on there’s a bit of a pattern here…

Wnaethoch chi, daethoch chi, aethoch chi

What about future?

Ga i, wna i, a i (af i).

Newch i, dewch chi, ewch chi etc etc

ok there’s a few odd ones but its getting easier.

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#592

I thought I had got the hang of it until they started mixing past and future short forms in the same sentence. I can’t switch from past to present within seconds, bit frustrating.

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#593

But it’s the pain that will give you the gains, so don’t feel bad about it, just ride with it and trust that it’s giving your brain the exposure it craves… :slight_smile:

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#594

Don’t worry @Pete2. It’s still “Wnes i” for me and it feels like it will always be. I just can’t get rid of it and “dw i wedi” is like far forgotten fairy-tale to me. All of a sudden I’m getting confused where to use what despite it’s all perfectly clear to me (at least I think it is). So I (probably) blurt many stupid things out when talking and all of a sudden catching myself in hopeless atempt to use “o’n i’n” with something like rhaid or similar because my tongue gets twisted around the word which just doesn’t want to go out of my mouth. - haha!

I sometimes have plenty of problems with switching from past to the future (or any other time) in the same sentence too @briangillam but my problem lies in the fact that from hearing the sentence in English to actually saying it in Welsh I forget what time was used at all. And I blurt something out again (half loud half way …) :slight_smile:

But the people on here and my fellow co-bootcampers finally taught me not to moan and being frustrated about this. One day it will all stick into place I believe.

It reminded me how I plunged into Nero Caffee in Cardiff in the morning and since it was quite early (if you count 8 am as early) I just couldn’t remember how to be polite enough to use “ga i?” so what actually came out from me was COFFEE MAWR PLIS! with such eagerness in my voice as if I’d need it desperately to survive the minute to come. The funny thing was that staff looked at me puzzled probably measuring how much coffee I actually need and then they ended up with really BIG pot of coffee probably established I’m too eager for it to use that “ga i” thingy. Well I said “plis” at least … :slight_smile:

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#595

Hi @tatjana. I’m not sure which thread to post this in, but were you aware that Neath Port Talbot County Borough was twinned with Velenje, Slovenia until fairly recently?

1 Like