Tiny questions with quick answers - continuing thread

I beg to differ! Please refer to post 303 - straightforward course 2 stuff!

Grammar buffs - I am in awe! Everybody else just ignore them, I think they’re having fun…

(Wish the smilies were nicer.)

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That’s what it is , though. Subject of the sentence - whether grammatical or semantic - causes SM of next word! It’s a great little rule, and it never fails! :slight_smile:

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You are right, Louis. Following word gets SM (if it can, of course!) after either the grammatical subject - naethon NI fynd, naeth FFRED fynd - or the semantic subject - rhaid inNI fynd, rhaid i FFRED fynd. In these latter examples, the ni and Ffred are not grammatical subjects (because of the sentence structure with rhaid) but they are nevertheless semantic/notional subjects - it is ni and Ffred that are having to do the going; so they still cause SM.

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Oh let’s not start that again! :wink:
It’s a rule you won’t find many places outside Gareth kingvs books, so just remember that if you are learning from any other source.

Nevertheless, that is what he is doing.

Nevertheless, no it ain’t.

Oh no! :frowning:

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Thanks, @garethrking! I appreciate your clarification, and the explanation you wrote to @louis helped me, too. I started learning Welsh in May with SSiW, with absolutely no prior knowledge of or exposure to the language. I’m halfway through Course 2 and I am just beginning to look at the grammar. I am finding your books to be very helpful, clearly written and at a good level for learners. Diolch! :slight_smile:

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Just remember that (as far as I can see) the great majority of grammarian and Welsh teachers would say that you were right at the beginning, and that it is the use of wnaeth ie a declined verb that causes the soft mutation. Not sure if Gareth King agrees with that- ie that it is the majority opinion, but it looks like it to me. Nothing wrong with being in a minority of course.

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Thanks for your input, @owainlurch. I appreciate everyone taking the time to discuss what I thought was just a tiny question with a quick answer… :slight_smile:

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I am very glad to hear that Anna, and those observations mean a lot to me. And thank you for using the books! :slight_smile:

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Sorry, @garethrking, nothing personal of course! I hope that didn’t sound rude. If I had more time I would enjoy reading a grammar book - especially one of yours! But I don’t really have the luxury at the moment so it’s turned into a bit of an experiment to see how little formal grammar I can get away with…

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Of course it didn’t :slight_smile:

Let me know how the experiment goes!

I seem to have missed something needed to understand the correct Welsh for one of the items in Course 2, Lesson 24. Could someone point me in the right direction, please? The item is:
She is not sure if she has to accept your answer.
I was expecting:
Dydy hi ddim yn siwr os rhaid iddi hi dderbyn dy ateb di.
But I think I heard:
Dydy hi ddim yn siŵr os oes rhaid iddi derbyn dy ateb di.
Any help will be gratefully received! Thank you.

I’ve never really learnt any formal grammar in English and I’ve got away with it so far.

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You heard it right.
You know that: She has to accept your answer is: “mae rhaid iiddi hi dderbyn dy ateb di”.
Now, the question-form of “mae” is “oes”. (You’ve learnt this form in the construction." mae gen i " or " oes gen ti" if you do the North Course or “mae… gyda fi” or “oes …gyda ti” if you’re learning with the South Course.
So: Does she have to accept your answer? is: " oes rhaid iddi hi dderbyn dy ateb di?".
Your sentence is not a question, but you use the question-form, because the meaning of the sentence is like a question.
I’m sorry I can’t explain this better, I hope it helps.

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Thank you for that very prompt and clear answer. I had gone through all the questions emerging from this lesson on the old forum and no-one had asked about it. For some reason I had thought I could use ‘os rhaid iddi hi’ without putting a verb into it. Your reply does make sense of it for me as I had noticed that in Wales they use ‘oes’ whenever the situation is uncertain and not just in questions. Presumably I have not picked up the ‘hi’ of ‘iddi hi’; I will have to go back and listen again.
Thanks again,
Raymond

Same here! Mind you, I did have two parents and two brothers all speaking English through the day to me from when I was a baby, along with the rest of society speaking English to me when I was older. I know someone who learned to speak Welsh as an adult just through talking to people in Welsh, without doing any courses at all. The best way if you find yourself in a position where you can do that! An area where you can do that, and/or with a partner you can do that with is marvellous. And many have done that. But if you aren’t in that position, sometimes learning how the language is put together can be a big advantage. I certainly found it so.

Peculiarly, sometimes “rhaid” doesn’t actually need the verb. It’s a bit of a matter of choice :blush: Just look on it as a bit of a peculiarity. And if you left the “hi” out, or left it in (or slurred over it!) that would be accepted too. If you said what you first suggested, you would be certainly understood! Another win for the way ssiw teaches Welsh :blush:

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Thank you both, you are so helpful. Confusion over; I am ready to go back to the lesson now!

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