I was wondering why Course 1 doesn’t teach the formal “chi” as well as “ti”. In French, “tu” has taken over some ground that would have been occupied by “vous” in previous generations, but there are plenty of situations where you still need the formal “vous”. How do native Welsh speakers handle this?
I hope this is has a quick (short) answer. It suddenly pooped into my head that I have known about and talked about Hywel Dda for… well it seems like forever… but why ‘DDa’ not ‘Da’? I suppose there is no chance that Hywel was actually not Y Brenin but Y Frenhines?
You get “Rhodri Fawr” as well!
As far as I understand it, it’s the equivalent of “Hywel the Good” or “Rhodri the Great” rather than “Good Hywel” and “Big Rhodri”. 
1 Like
So adjectives after Y behave like feminine nouns? I have probably been taught that years ago!! Diolch y fawr for your help!! Mind, I’d have prefered it to be that the so famous and clever and just King turned out to be a lady!!! 
1 Like
There’s a lot of difference in the way different native speakers use “chi”.
But as an adult learner of Welsh, you would have to travel far and wide before encountering any situation where the use of “ti” rather than “chi” would produce any awkwardness.
For us, it’s not a “use chi” until you know otherwise situation, it’s more that “ti is singular, and chi is plural. But if forewarned that someone prefers to be addressed as chi, remember to use that.”
Or at least, I’ve found that following that hasn’t got me into any trouble, at any rate!
I didn’t mean to imply that it is a literal translation of the three words (though I have absolutely no idea of its derivation), just that it is used in the situation where you would use that form in English. It is definitely just two words, “Hywel” and “Dda”, whatever it derives from 
Mind you, how you could tell the difference in the case of Gwenllian, I don’t know!
Well, you see, Owain, I know of at least one girl called Hywel!!! If it had been Rhodri Fawr I’d thought of, I’d have realised it was a grammatical point with no other explanation, but with Hywel, I got to dreaming!!!
Oh, that’s interesting!
No, it’s nothing to do with any Y, henddraig…there’s no Y there anyway. There’s a rule in Welsh that adjectives used like this with personal names (i.e. stuck on and denoting a personal attribute - usually names of kings etc, like Olaf the Bald, Henry the Annoying) have SM. Llywelyn Fawr - Ll. the Great. etc etc. Nothing to do with gender.
3 Likes
Thanks for confirming exactly what I said! Always good to have someone with your knowledge backing you up.
Was that exactly what you said? In that case, sorry.
1 Like
No need to apologise! No one expects you to read every message on every thread, and it’s great to have things confirmed by you, as I said! A confirmation from you stops stuff from other people being guesses
- Thank you very much indeed for taking the time to help us!
- Owain didn’t say that, he said he thought it’s the equivalent of “Hywel the Good”. He added that he didn’t mean a literal translation, but he at least implied an ‘Y’!!!
2 Likes
Hi henddraig! If you look at my second post I say it is not a literal translation of the three words, just used in that situation, and there is no “y” there. (ie, exactly what Garth king said) You must have missed that, as Gareth King did. Sorry my time wasn’t of help to you.
And @stella missed that too, by the looks of it, so it is, as I have already said, good that Gareth King came along to confirm it!
Hi @henddraig! Just re reading your last comment, it seems you did see the second of my messages, so I’m a little bit puzzled how you can read "
as “implying a ‘y’”.
You may have misunderstood there to be a “y” implied, but I certainly did not imply it. 
1 Like
Mae ddrwg gei!! Grovel! Sorry… 
I have a nasty habit of reading what I expect to see instead of what is there… or reading stress into things that are not stressed or just misinterpreting!
Please forgive!!
I can only say I misinterpreted it too and thought it was the article causing the mutation. By which I’m not trying to say it was @owainlurch who was implying it, but just that it’s far too easy to misunderstand someone when writing and not talking.
Ego te absolvo… 
Much as I love answering any queries I can whenever I am on this site, it is always great whenever Gareth King jumps in over me, (or anyone!), as his powers of explanation are second to none!
Same to @Stella- that’s why I always agree with you in recommending Gareth King’s books myself- I might not agree with everything he says, but his ability to explain things to learners is absolutely first class (in my view!)
2 Likes
Hate to ask such a lowbrow question having read that discussion, however, it’s not stopped me before. Is there a colloquial construct which mirrors the the admonitory English “What have I told you about …” where this is followed by “being rude to your Gran”, “putting Domestos on a black dog”, “eating your brother’s chocolate” etc. You can tell we had a quiet Christmas😀 Diolch
1 Like