SSi Forum

Do all verbs have short forms


#1

Hi
Can someone tell me if all verbs have short form?

In the course there are common ones like do,get,hear,say in past and future but are these exceptions?

E.g

Wedais i - I said
Weda i - I (will) say/tell

But what about bwyta,yfed,ymarfer etc?

Thanks

Andrew


#2

They do, with a few exceptions. And often, instead of the short forms, gwneud is used as an auxiliary

Bwytais fy mrecwast = Wnes i fwyta fy mrecwast


#3

Hi Louis

So would a verb like bwyta also have a short future?

Thanks

Andrew


#4

Hopefully this will help … click on the image to see it in full.


#5

Yes, although as Louis said, you’re more likely to hear it used with the auxiliary.
The future forms of bwyta are
Bwyta i
Bwyti di
Bwytiff hi/e
Bwytiwn ni
Bwytiwch chi
Bwytian nhw


#6

@siaronjames @louis @gruntius

Thanks all for your help. Just as I thought I’d got on top of tenses, turns out there are hundreds more to tune my ears into!

Andrew


#7

Bwyta hopefully has a very very long future :wink:
Just about all verbs have a future/present form. You see them everywhere in written Welsh, and if you listen to Welsh songs, you here them used there, too.


#8

OK so what about a conditional tense for every verb? Is it possible to say bwytwn I, yfwn i, cwympwn i?


#9

yup! :slight_smile:


#10

Diolch


#11

I’ve got to say that I’m really enjoying a 2nd look at the short forms.
Is it natural to use the short form future for irregular verbs. Some people say they don’t get used, but things like tala’i (I’ll pay) sound OK to me esp in the south. Any thoughts?

Also, are the short form future words exactly the same as the imperative (command) or is there a different spelling? Or do you just stick “di” or “chi” after them to show that they aren’t the command?

For example: Edrychi (di) and Edrychwch (chi).


#12

Yes, the short form irregulars get used, especially (unsurprisingly) the most common ones. Just think of Ga(f) i? / Awn ni / Daw e/o / (w)nei di? / Gwn i …

The imperatives usually have either an ‘a’ ending (informal/singular) or an ‘wch’ ending (formal/plural), so in the case of edrych:
Edrycha! (Look! - imperative informal/singular)
Edrychwch! (Look! - imperative formal/plural)
… and in the case of Edrychwch (You will look - non imperative formal/plural), it will be the tone of voice and context that tells you it’s not the imperative, whether the chi follows or not.


#13

Arrrrgh! sorry; I meant regular, as you half worked out already, looking at your answer (as helpful as always). That’s great thanks. So, just trying to get a feel for how natural the short form future is - or is it only for a few selected verbs like joi(o) stopi(o), tali, etc


#14

Hi @JohnYoung

I don’t know if you’ve discovered it already but level 3 of the old course is a fantastic work out on short forms - quite tough but in a good way! :grin:

Rich :slight_smile:


#15

I think how natural (i.e. everyday speech use) it is depends to a certain extent on where you are - some areas seem to use short forms more than others. Remember, you can also use gwneud as an auxiliary - just as you can use nes i for the past, you can use na i for the future - so this is in the same ‘tense’ (preterite) as the short form, and some people/areas prefer to use this construction instead.

And of course some verbs get used more frequently than others so we get used to hearing their short forms and this might make them appear to be a ‘selected few’ when it would be, for example, just as natural to use a short form in a verb like to anneal (tymheru/caledu/anelio) - but that’s not a verb that crops up everyday unless you work with metal! (or watch lots of TV where people work with metal :wink: )


#16

Yes it’s spot on but you need to take it with asprins. Strangely, the 1990s nightclass manual is a brilliant companion to it. Plus it’s Pleasantly t non PC :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#17

Great thanks, both. I’ll listen out and trick my local friends to say something and see what they come out with. I recall one friend saying nai edrych at hi, I’ll look at it, but she’s an escapee from the North :grin:. @beca-brown 's friend in Brynaman (I think also fro the Gogs) seems to be into anealing so, a brilliant excuse for me to visit her workshop. Where is it exactly, anyone?
I often pop into Brynaman for a bit of Welshness :sweat_smile:


#18

The first few friends I’ve asked, tend to use short form irregular verb followed by basic verb in speech: (Fe) na(f) i aneli.

Although I love the lyric of Big Leaves/Alys Williams Synfyfrio : Ddysgwylia 'r da/ I look for the good


#19

One future short form that you often hear on Pobol y Cym is af i - “I’ll go” - when someone knocks at the door, or someone has to go to the shop for something :slight_smile: