SSi Forum

Level 2, Challenge 9 (South) (again - ŷn nhw'n moyn)


#1

Hi all,

Following on from this thread posted over a year ago (because I didn’t want to resurrect an old thread by posting in it):

Level 2 Challenge 9 (South)

I have also encountered the phrase, “to explain what they say they want”, and I too am stumped why it’s

esbonio beth maen nhw’n dweud ŷn nhw’n moyn
(where ŷn = ydyn)

…and not:

esbonio beth maen nhw’n dweud bod nhw’n moyn
esbonio beth maen nhw’n dweud maen nhw’n moyn

Are these wrong, then, or acceptable alternatives? My response to the English had …bod nhw’n moyn at the end.

Other forum members provided reasons in the original thread about why ŷn is surfacing there, but I can’t say they entirely explain (to me) what’s triggering it. I always thought ŷn/ydyn (and related yw/ydy) was a form of bod used in non-affirmative clauses - i.e. negative and interrogative - so why is it there if there’s no change in meaning or no preceding word (no nag or os) to trigger it?

Atebion ar gerdyn post, plîs. :slight_smile:


#2

I’m looking into this for you as the answer isn’t obvious to me either. It feels right to say it that way, but I don’t know the reason behind it. I’ll try to find out.


#3

Thank you @Deborah-SSi :slight_smile:

I’ve just listened to the Northern version of that lesson, and they have it as Esbonio beth maen nhw’n deud bod nhw isio. So, am I right in thinking that to use bod there in the South would be an OK alternative? Or not really? Or would it be OK in some dialects but not others?

The course is so full of relative clauses (all with bod) by the start of Level 2 that I’m guessing there’s a pattern to where ŷn/ydyn (and yw/ydy) sound right instead. I’m blowed if I can work out what it is, though!


#4

I’m sure it would be fine to use bod there, James. I’ve passed the question on to Iestyn. He didn’t have an answer straight away and he’s pretty busy at the moment, but he’ll let me know when he can answer it :slight_smile: