SSi Forum

[now starting to publish] Level 3 northern


#122

Diolch…I was almost right! :slight_smile:


#123

Maybe I’m being dense here, but I can’t think of a case where “I should have some” doesn’t mean the same as “I should get some” Maybe more context is needed for me to understand the difference.


#124

I thinks its the same as in

Dwi’n cael brecwast
V
Mae gen i frecwast

Which is i’m having breakfast v i have (as in own or have with me) breakfast

So
Dylwn i gael rhai ohonyn nhw (i should have some of them as in have as in use)
v
Dylai fod gen i rai ohonyn nhw (i should have as in own some of them).

apologies to @garethrking if i’m wrong!


#125

If you want apples, I should have some somewhere (have = possess)
Os dych chi eisiau afalau, dylai fod gen i rai rhywle

I should have some coffee before starting off (have = get)
Dylwn i gael coffi cyn cychwyn


#126

Ok, fair enough. But this seems like a colloquial meaning of ‘should’ to me. There’s no question that an English speaker would say it that way, but another way of saying it is “I probably have some”

It’s always interesting when a word has multiple disparate meanings in one language. If you then have a single word in another language that is taken to be a translation of that word, does it have the same spectrum of meaning, and if so, is there something deeper underlying it, or is it possibly a borrowing, or just a coincidence?


#127

Yes, but you were talking about the difference between have and get, weren’t you? :slight_smile:


#128

Yes indeed. It is just interesting to me that the multiple meanings of ‘should’ would map one-for-one onto multiple meanings of dylwn. I notice lots of these sort of semantic pairings between Welsh and English. More, for example, than with English and German. I suppose it is from the two languages living in such close proximity for so long.


#129

I think that is at least partly it, yes.
And also these modals are very fluid in meaning anyway.


#130

By ‘I should have [possess] some’ usually means something like "I probably possess some as it is the sort of thing I keep a supply of; it is something I should not run out of’. For example ’ i should have some milk as I do not like to run out’. using should instead of probably, we imply a motive to the possession rather than merely a probability.


#131

Ahh diolch! I knew “gan” needed “bod” just turned to wrong way with this example.


#132

No we don’t. :slight_smile:

One of the various meanings of should is probability.

Unless of course you are maintaining that this use of should is in some way incorrect - but any native speaker will accept the following example as perfectly natural and correct English, I am sure:

There should be some milk left in the fridge

Probability, not motive.


#133

Maybe the welsh came first…and hence followed into english :slight_smile:


#134

Could well be…I’m sure, for example, that that’s the origin of the continuous tenses (i.e. the -ing tenses) in English - no other Germanic language has them really, and they’re a central feature of Celtic.


#135

Indeed…as well as do in questions.

Eg

Do you go to school.


#136

Maybe it’s just me then!


#137

Pokes head above parapet…any news on challenge 3 or 4?

Ducks back down.


#138

Might not be all that long…


#139

Oh four lessons in one day!!! :slight_smile: i’m going in…


#140

Oh amazing day. Over two hours chatting with @Sam84 and now four lessons of SSIW too.

The pace seems to have picked up. But great stuff. Great lessons. God you work us hard!

Ond, os ti’n edrych ar ôl dy blant fel hynny, dwi angen galw gwasanaethau cymdeithasol rwan hyn!!!

But, if you look after your children like that, I need to call social services right now !!!


#141

Ok…to be honest i don’t like the mutations in stand alone form

Eg the end of the second half

Ddiwedd yr ail hanner.

But i do like…

Revision from previous challenges
The pace
Use of xxxx ydy xxxx
Its so different to level 3. I’m not sure i could conjugate another verb ever (if i knew i was doing it).

I could go on. I feel it’s all starting to come together.

Now what i’d really like is some joined up thinking from all the welsh learning bodies.