Yeah, new on me also. So it can mean practice or play a trick or fake/cheat? Borrowed from English Cog. Meaning the same or to throw dice etc. TBH, the English is a new one (or old one?) On me also.
I’m sure there’s not a really clear line…but what is generally considered South and North for accent?
We have a board at work that I’ve annexed to write Welsh words and phrases on. Something will come up in regular conversation and if I know the words, I write it in Welsh on the board. It’s just a bit of fun practice (I’m the only Welsh speaker in the office). The latest one was when a colleague said “My brain has been fried” and I wrote “Mae ymennydd Karen wedi’i ffrio” which, now I look at it, should probably be “Mae ymennydd Karen wedi bod yn ffrio”.
Is either correct in meaning?
First one looks OK (I think?) Either that or Mae ymennydd Karen wedi cael ei ffrio?
I think the second is closer to Karen’s brain has been frying
I may be completely wrong though, and happy to be corrected
Ahhhh, yes, I think you’re right! So it looks like my first instinct is more likely correct. That’s both reassuring and annoying that I should doubt myself.
I believe “wedi’i” implies “wedi cael ei”.
That’s what I would have gone for - you could be more precise and say ‘wedi cael ei ffrio’, but that’s really about wanting to try and echo the English as closely as possible - wedi’i ffrio is much faster/more common…
@gisella - nope, no real clear line I’m afraid - you can pick up on particular words - ‘sai’n gallu’ would always sound southern, for example, but as a general thing? It varies too much from village to village…
Do you mean some sort of idealised geographical border? If so it’s probably just N of Aberystwyth, but in reality, starts to change a few miles from the South coast.
If you mean what do the different accents sound like (in pronunciation and tone, lilt, etc), that’s a tricky one to explain. I only know by the general sound structure. You could listen to a part of a challenge in N and then S to get an idea. Alternatively, two different presenters on Radio Cymru. Possibly a good contrast might be Sian Cothi for South and John Hardy for North.
I hope that this helps.
Thanks, yes, I meant some kind of invisible border…just to have a vague idea.
As for the differences…I tried to listen a bit of a challenge in Northern version. And from time to time someone here mentions one presenter or another…as having a strong Northern or Southern accent, and sometimes I googled the names of someone I heard on the radio or TV clips, to see where they’re from.
In challenges, the thing I noticed easily is that they use different words to mean the same thing.
But more in general, like the radio…I can’t really understand the differences so clearly, because it’s all just a big mess of unintelligible sounds, for now!
I had the impression that Southern accent tends to be softer, clearer (with wider vowels and distinct syllables), have fuller/lower and less nasal tones and in general more musical…but I’m not not too sure it’s always like that!
I’ll try to listen to Sian Cothi and John Hardy, then!
New to me, too – but I just looked it up in the OED, which has it appearing amongst “Ruffians’ terms” for dice-play as referring to various ways of cheating at dice, first recorded in 1532, extending thereafter to other forms of deceit and misrepresentation. But nothing particularly modern cited, and all the uses are marked as obsolete.
Clearly it’s part of the active vocabulary of Y Cledrau, though, as I noticed it today in another song of theirs, where I’d also previously mis-heard it as cofio – Wyt ti’n fy nabod i mor da a fi’n cogio dy nabod di?
Regarding the English, this evening I posted onto an international FB English language group asking if anyone uses the term. Most hadn’t heard of it, except a lady living in Ireland, who remembered it from her youth. She mentioned that it tended to relate to cheating in large city schools.
The last OED citation was 2nd half of C19th, so it’s not altogether surprising that it might still be just about in living use/living memory in some areas, but it’s nice to know. Thank you!
little disappointed, i missed challenge 2 as i had a cold…
Maybe from Latin - cognoscere “to get to know, recognize”, for example. c.f. English cognitive, cognition
Dw i’n mod?
p.s. Sorry, I think I need another coffee…
As a horrible (and subjective and not too helpful) approximation, northern can sound high-pitched and some might say a bit nasal (although it’s maybe more back-of-the throat), and southern more deeply pitched. However, you will find as many exceptions to that as there are examples…
I’m still puzzled by some people on S4C, probably especially in dramas, because trained actors can adopt different accents to suit the role. I’m currently a bit puzzled by a new family in the northern soap “Rownd a Rownd”. Clearly they are meant to have moved in from more southerly latitudes (I don’t remember it being specified) but apart from some giveway "sa i’n"s, I don’t really recognise a very southerly accent, but that may be that my ear is lacking or out of practice. A complicating factor is that the wife in the family is playing the cousin of one of the definitely Gog characters; but the actor/actress playing her is the real life older sister of the actor/actress playing the Gog character. You’d expect sisters to have the same accent, but not necessarily cousins (although I think this “cousin” is being played basically as a Gog, but maybe a Gog who has been away from home for some time).
Funny how things come around. That guy on the left could pass as a modern “hipster” in parts of London I reckon. You still see the occasional scooter, but without the light show!
Ive never known a hipster who likes suits…its meant to be a counter culture to all that
Well…for hipsters as in beatnik era, suits would not suit.
Hipsters as in 2018 do wear suits in selected styles - and after all, modernism was/is usually considered counterculture so in a roundabout way…
Nothing to do with Welsh, but that scooter’s front mudguard is troubling me