I may be able to pop over to Wales for a quick visit soon (just a day or two in March, probably around the 8th).
I had planned to go to Caernarfon as it’s supposedly one of the most Welsh-speaking places in Wales, but another thread reminded me of the term “Cofi” and now I worry I wouldn’t be able to understand the people there given the accents I’ve been exposed to so far. Though http://nrhenllys.magix.net/public/slang.htm says that you don’t hear them much today!
What sort of places speak with the kind of accent I hear on SSiW? Pen Llŷn?
I’ll probably be flying into Manchester and taking the train from there.
Also, if I do make it to Caernarfon, would you be free then, @aran, for a brief chat?
I think that wherever you go there will be dialect variation as far as I’m beginning to understand. I recently spoke to a someone who’s a Welsh translator who was telling me that there’s lots of variation all over North Wales (and I’m sure SW as well) She was saying that, even neighbouring valleys would have some distinct differences, particularly still in older generations today and her suggestion was that it’s been traditional community/territorial identifier. She said that these days. however, all this is blurring as a few main dialects are coming to the fore with the influence of radio, tv and now the internet.
I’m no where near the point where I can tell any difference. To me at the moment they’re all just words that I haven’t yet learnt!
Very true I suppose, I’m also very much a beginner, not a lot of topics I can talk about in depth or words I know anyway so if I keep it to functional things such as “one ticket to …, please”, that narrows down the vocabulary I can expect to hear in reply!
If you’re off to the Pen Llŷn, Criccieth might be worth a visit. It’s not very big, but it’s very pretty with a beach, a castle and some lovely shops on the main street. In my experience, most of the shop-owners will respond in Welsh to a learner (They do get a lot of visitors from England, but I’ve usually managed to stick to Welsh there.)
The previous stop would be worth a visit as well - Porthmadog. The shopowners are even more likely to speak English, though (again, in my experience), but they do all speak Welsh (so insist!)
Don’t worry. I’ve spoken welsh in…Caernarfon, Aberdaron, Corwen, Dolgellau, Criccieth, Llanberis, Porthmadog, Beddgelert, Betws-y-Coed etc, and have always been understood and understood the people i’m speaking to.
I agree , you will be understood wherever you go . A person who speaks the Cofi dialect of Welsh still easily understand someone who doesn’t speak it so don’t worry about that at all. In my experience of everywhere I have been in North Wales , the most Welsh places ( the places where you hear it spoken most ) is Caernarfon and the villages surrounding Caernarfon and Llangefni on Ynys Mon. I particularly like Llanberis this time of year when the tourists have gone and the village goes back in to a quiet , sleepy state . I have been there for a day out a few times over the last couple of months and find the locals to be so friendly . You can park your car in the village and walk around the lake to the slate museum which is free to enter . All the staff there , the same as the staff in the village shops all speak Welsh and are very friendly and happy to speak with learners. Although you will hear some English spoken around the village , even out of tourist season , the main language of the village is overwhelmingly Cymraeg . I was there on Sunday and all the local lads , ranging from young kids to older teenagers were playing a game of football on the pitch by the lake. Apart from the English swear words they were all playing in Cymraeg. I was quite tempted to join in to be honest . Has been so long since I had a game of football
The dialect I found most difficult to understand when I first came up here wasn’t the Cofi one at all - it was the Blaenau one
Wherever you go, I think you’ll probably find that you are simultaneously a) suprised by how much you do understand and b) frustrated at how much you don’t understand, but that’s just part of the learning process so my advice is, don’t let fear of the ‘b)’ part hold you back, just look forward to the ‘a)’ part
If you do come to Caernarfon on a weekday, I’m happy to pop out for a panad with you during my lunch break
No idea for any of them![quote=“siaronjames, post:10, topic:7122”]
The dialect I found most difficult to understand when I first came up here wasn’t the Cofi one at all - it was the Blaenau one
Wherever you go, I think you’ll probably find that you are simultaneously a) suprised by how much you do understand and b) frustrated at how much you don’t understand, but that’s just part of the learning process so my advice is, don’t let fear of the ‘b)’ part hold you back, just look forward to the ‘a)’ part
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I had a Bampa (grandfather) and a Bopa (aunty) and my Dad goes by Grancha. One to throw back to Pete - what about a Bompa (also still say daps and I think they do in the west country as well - any sort of trainer, but specifically the slip on little black ones you used to get for gym in School)?
A bit of an odd one - Bompa is a large marble. Being a country bumkin - Yukka was a common one as well (the little birds in the nest, who haven’t learned to fly yet) - we must have been speaking Welsh when we always said Rhiwbob for Rhubarb, but not sure about gwsgog for Gooseberry.
That was used in York in the 50s! I susoect its fairly universal! My age shows as I would have said daps were plimsolls, and no, only your Bampa would remember them! I didn’t remember scran @Pete2. Is it east of Neath???
To be honest I still find it really hard to understand a lot of what people say , whatever dialect they are speaking in . It’s just something that I’m assuming will get easier over time so don’t worry too much about not understanding much as it is just an inevitable part of the learning process . Im sure if people know you are learning they will speak more clearly to you.
Having recently had a few days in Bangor and Caernarfon where without any effort at all every conversation (except one with a washing machine delivery man and one overheard conversation between a lady waiting at the bus who’d started in Welsh with someone else and had to swap) started and ended in Welsh I heartily reccomend either location. Plus they’re both nice and have interesting places to go.
Small shops, supermarkets, cafes, buses, people waiting for buses, museums. Welsh first was the norm it seemed, or at least to assume you could switch to if it wanted and it was lovely.
Virtually the same variation I remember living as a child in Mansfield, Nottinghamshire except that the pronunciation had degenerated even more to ‘guzgog’. After many years away from the area I now live a few miles away and there is some very odd local phraseology/pronunciation. Some of it seems quite close to welsh and perhaps it’s not surprising since as it seems that years ago many welsh people moved in to the ‘Potteries’ looking for employment and thence up to the coalfields in Nottinghamshire and beyond. ‘Mi mam’ I remember being used for ‘my mother’ and the link there is obvious. I live in Mansfield Woodhouse now and everyone here seems to greet everyone else with ‘Aye up mi duck’ or ‘All right duck?’. I don’t know if there’s any connection there with welsh but it’s quite endearing when you get used to it and very friendly. There was a whole series of ‘Woodhouse-eze’ in the local rag giving local phraseology complete with interpretations!
(They do get a lot of visitors from England, but I’ve usually managed to stick to Welsh there.)
so my advice is, don’t let fear of the ‘b)’ part hold you back, just look forward to the ‘a)’ part 