Don’t worry about them. The less you worry about them, the closer you’ll be to the day when you realise they’re working fine… 
@tatjana I’m quoting this out of the “Welsh - a new design” thread, because I think it belongs in here. I don’t want to take the website design thread off topic.
DON’T be shattered…you need to listen to Aran! You CAN do this! You are doing better than you think you are. Here you are communicating with all of us in a language that isn’t your own all the time…if you can do that, you can learn Welsh! You just need to stay focused on having a positive attitude, and maybe stepping away for a bit when you get too frustrated. I have actually been struggling the last few days. I am repeating Gwers 21 again today, and I feel like since Gwers 19 I’ve been falling apart. I don’t know if it’s the “enill yn hawdd” and “colli yn drwm” that made me lose my pronunciation confidence, or if my hard drive of a brain is just full, but I can’t seem to get the sentences out right lately. I’m mixing up all the yes/no’s, softening after wedi when I know I shouldn’t, not softening after the wnaeth- forms when I know I should, and just not remembering the we/you forms, especially the future forms. I’m finding pronunciation hard all of a sudden, and I think I’m concentrating so much on that that somehow things aren’t sticking. Yes, I’m a bit frustrated, but I know I just need to keep practicing. I’m thinking about backing up to Gwers 19 even though I really want to keep moving forward, just so I can practice more without adding anything new for a day or two. I keep telling myself that Aran and Iestyn have told us that periods of struggle are part of the journey and are actually worthwhile. No, it’s not fun to struggle, but I’m just going to put my head down and work my way through it, taking breaks when I start to feel really frustrated, and I know sooner or later I’ll come out the other side a better Welsh speaker. You can do this too…don’t let the tough times get the better of you!
Now I know the motto in Welsh…PAID BECSO! Say it with me! C’mon, Tatjana, keep smiling, and keep practicing 
We WILL keep improving and learning!
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@AnnaC in 3 years approximately (that’s how long I’ve being learning Cymraeg with SSiW) you’ll be a fluent speaker. This is all I can say, but as you see I am not even a bit close to that in my 3 years + what I’ve learnt before I found SSi, but that was not much though. I wouldn’t even be so frustrated if there would be sentences said wrong, but there are sentences not being said at all. I’m at Lesson 18 Course 2 at the moment and it’s from here on only adding to the learnt gramar and I just can’t remember anything I’ve being taught through the course all of a sudden. But I already said too much. I don’t want to discourage you. I feel future is bright for you however what I’ve made yesterday and today going through the lessons just isn’t enough for me and I’m doing as I was instructed by @aran pushing through the lessons not repeating them. However I’m not sure this would really work as rating of success is RAPIDLY falling down …
But, that’s another story for some other time …
And, you did right @AnnaC bringing this discussion in here. It really doesn’t belong in “Welsh - a new design” thread. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
This simply isn’t true, Tatjana. You’re almost at the end of Course 2 - and we know from experience that people who have finished Course 1 are capable of surviving an entire week in Welsh only.
This is fine. This is entirely normal. Sure, if you go the whole way through an entire session without saying any sentences at all, that would ring a few alarm bells - maybe a bad day, maybe you’re tired, maybe you need to rewind a little.
Correct answers is NOT the same as ‘success’. Success is getting to the point where you can have a conversation (however limited) in Welsh. You are very, very near that point.
Keep doing the lessons. Keep posting your % results in here. It doesn’t matter if your first run to the end of Course 2 isn’t the end of the journey.
Remember, Tatjana, all the things you’re saying now about the end of Course 2 you used to say about Course 1 - and now you can go the whole way through Course 1 with extremely high accuracy. There will come a point when the same is true of Course 2
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Gee, @aran, how can yu know this? You never have heard me speaking at all. Writing has many helping escapes so this shouldn’t be the what made you think this way.
Well, I didn’t say I’ll quit doing that but I’ll limit my “reports” to once a week (if possible) as I don’t want to fill this forum with my moanings and such things (although I am not too successful with that either).
Sorry Aran this made me a bit of a laugh imagening me surviving in such situation. I’m not good either with doing mimic or with understanding/recognizing it so one talking to me that way might just catch a cold as I’d cause too much wind around him/her waving my hands or blowing in vain as I can’t remember a thing. 
On a sirious note … well I’d probably be capable of producing something for some minutes but for a week? Well, who knows though …
As I always tend to be honest toward others and myself - yes I remember. this can’t be deined.
Well, to add to my previous reply: The more I do the lessons the more I feel I understand nothing anymore, not words, I understand all but all gramar came to confusion. I literally am not able to use anything what I’ve learnt in previous lessons. I’ve mixed and confused everything, can’t use tenses anymore, it’s as everything previously learnt would go to waste … 
What’s coming across to someone who doesn’t know you is “despondency” in English and “anobaith” in Welsh. If these mean the same thing in Slovenian, you’ll see that they represent a state of mind which is least helpful to progress in learning. What is more important is that they are totally incompatible with your obvious achievements in Welsh up to now.
Dal ati gyda/efo gobaith
Paid a becso
Cadw gwenu
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“obup” in Slovene …
Ydw, dwi’n anobaithio yn llwyr.
And yes, I obviously am “anobaith” myself. I can be grateful you still tolerate me here at all, especially @aran, however I can’t help myself. I start lesson in a good will and determined this time will do better but end it with desperation and crushed. 
However, despear isn’t in my nature. All who know me say I’m positive person so obviously something really changed in my soul who knows when, where and why but this has nothing to do with Welsh though just results of learning aren’t what they, according to my abilities should be, that’s it.
Please see my PM, Tatjana 
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Third week of Course 2
I’ve just finished last lesson for this week - Lesson 20, more and more frustrated as I don’t understand dim byd. Instead of all getting into its place it tends to be more and more confusion each and every day.
This week I went through the Lesson 14 to 20. The least percentage of success was 5 % in Lesson 17 - the first lesson with all those possessives and mutations. The most percentage it was 43 % in Lesson 16, The least right things said were 6 out of 119 and the most 67 out of 156. I was never higher then 43 % and 3 times below 10 %.
So overall wrap up would be
In this week out of 902 things to be said I’ve said 709 wrong what makes success rate of (only) 21 %. In comparrison to previous week it’s 30 % worse with less things presented to say.
Overall impression of what I’ve went through of Course 2 is 42 %, so it dropped for 10 % what (if 50 % is imaginary drawn water surface) means I’m slowly drawning.
Previous week in the context of the “report” I’ve said this:
And, well, yes, I’ve made more then 15 % correct but my inspiration has gone.
I can say that, being approximately quiet from Lesson 17 on as I all of a sudden couldn’t remember even what I’ve learnt (what to use for some tenses, well known words of all kinds, mutations (those already learnt), even taseti and byseni (I didn’t spell this right I know) structure all of a sudden didn’t work for me) I (sadly) didn’t play word game but rather silence one.
5 more lessons to go with no thoughts, predictions or anything similar. Even if I have some I’ll hold them for myself and see if they’re right or wrong at the end of this course. However I already know that …
No, I’ll leave this to the unknown future …
Well…Tatjana…I am absolutely RUBBISH at lesson 19 (Course 2 Northern)!! I’ve had one full run through and a half way run through. Nightmare by the time I reach ‘ganddo’ and ‘ganddi’ - I can’t actually understand the construction of some of the sentences round that bit of the lesson! So what I do is run through a 3rd time until I can repeat it kind of parrot fashion (without fully ‘getting’ it) and trust to the fact that in future lessons I WILL hear it enough and repeat it enough for the penny to drop. I’m sure this must be the way babies and toddlers learn their first language…repeat without understanding initially and eventually it all comes together. Keep at it…dal ati!
Well, I tend to ponder my thoughts some time after I finish the lesson, and it seams that I understand and know (let’s say) everything but when coming to do lesson again nothing comes to my mind and all those words seam so hard and illogical that I forget even what I should know already for a long time. It’s like I wouldn’t recognize tenses either. Since I catch myself thinking (obviously) too much about all those mutations, possessive words etc, I don’t even hear sentence I should say in Cymraeg properly so I can’t repeat it. All seams so hard, so unusual, it’s like I’d not know those things already. And (of course) I forget half of the things in the sentence.
Yah, I’ll carry on for sure. What else could I do …
Thank you.
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Seriously, Tatjana, you think I’m just making this stuff up? You don’t think that maybe I’ve acquired quite a bit of experience with all this, watching hundreds and hundreds of people go through the process?
What I know about your production isn’t based on what I have seen you write in Welsh - which is more or less irrelevant - it’s based on the detailed results you’ve shared with us, and my knowledge of what is possible at different levels of the course.
So, you had your worst result in a lesson with a huge amount of new material. Can you really not see that this isn’t about you failing? It’s about new material taking time.
And you got 43% right in 16?! THAT’S the important number, right there - and I can tell you without any uncertainty at all that anyone who can get 43% in Lesson 16 of Course 2 would be fine on Bootcamp.
Out of interest, what was your percentage for Lesson 20?
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No. This is not what I think. It was simple question as I know in whole conversation I ever had live with someone practically nothing was produced. The question was based on knowing myself and how much I’ve produced during conversation, which was, if I’m honest toward all of us, quite some time ago and it’s quite possible today it would be (probably, I’m not sure) much better.
Mae’n drwg da fi. I didn’t want to insult or anger you or doubt your experiences. And i also didn’t want this would seam as I disrespect you. No, I didn’t want this and it surely wasn’t meant tthis way to be.
Yes, but 5 %? Isn’t it a bit too little?
7 % if I remember correctly but surely less then 10. The lessons from 17 to 20 were all under 10 % except 1, Lesson 18 I think (it was exactly 10 %).
I’m sorry once again. Obviously I can’t express myself properly even in English. And … I obviously do things wrong all the time.
Yes, but my knowledge of your ability isn’t based on listening to you trying to use your Welsh in a spoken situation. I can guarantee you the main problem with that is (by your own admission) you haven’t used Welsh in a Welsh only situation - you’ve gone back to English whenever you’ve got stuck.
A few hours of not being allowed to go back to English (or Slovene!) would make a huge difference in showing you what you can communicate when you have no choice.
I’m not angry or insulted, Tatjana - I’m just not going to let you get away with saying ‘Oh, he’s too kind, but he doesn’t know anything about my Welsh’ - because I do
Yes, 5% is low enough to make me think that you might want to revisit that lesson at some point in the future. But also, if 18 was a little higher, that is very encouraging. Especially since we know that a lot of these issues are going to be possessives/mutations - in other words, if you’re producing a lot of stuff correctly as part of the phrases, but making mistakes on the details, that’s fine.
When you get to 25, let me know your %s for 21 to 25, and then we’ll discuss the next steps for you.
It is very, very clear, however, that the learning process is working for you, however much you don’t want to believe it!
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No, no, no … that was never my intention. It was simple curious question to which you just gave me the answer. I was literally wondering how can you possibly know. I know, your experiences give you a way to recognize the abilities of one even if that one (in this case me) doesn’t see them, but what else? . And I simply take your answer to my question as it was written in those two of your replies. That’s it.
Thank you.
Mainly yes. When sentence comes to mutation or possesive thingy I get stuck. However I really started to mix tenses but that’s probably because I’m more concentrated on how I’ll maybe finally say those tough things right and am not even concentrated on a tense itself. So I many times even don’t know at the end of English sentence what tense was actually used but when I hear Welsh reply I only am aware I’ve “heard” it all wrong (or better said, didn’t hear it at all).
When I first read this it felt a bit scarry … 21 to 25 already?
One way or another surely does becuase if it wouldn’t I surely wouldn’t be able to say anything at all neither write anything down. I just have to be that honest.
So, let’s see what the future (this week) brings then.
Diolch YN FAWR IAWN!
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The last week of Course 2
I’m actually not sure what style of writing should I go with. Should I just pure stats here nad vanish, or should i put something more into it. If I put only stats then one might get into slumber before he/she starts to read, if I put something more into it it’ll be all moaning and “praising” my failure … So let’s go with ordinary annoying “novel” style then …
This week I’ve gone through Lessons 21 - 25 of Course 2. The most percentage I’ve reached was 25 % and the least was 8 %. So, as you see I never was beyind 25 % however I was not below 8 % aswell despite I’ve thought Lesson 25 would be 0 %. What actually saved my percentage were short intro structures to “new” mutations and articles. All actual sentences were not said even once. I forgot even structures (half sentences) which I should know already.
So, the wrap up of this week would be ----------------- tadaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ---------------- 14 % alltogether
SUCCESS! Isn’t it? I have to admit despite all difficulties I didn’t expect so low averall percentage.
As said, the highest percentage was 25 % In lesson 21 thanks to short introduction structures to mutations. When comming to use them in sentences there was nothing produced (almost) at all. And I was at the lowest of 8 % two times, in Lesson 23 and 24. Corresponding to percentage there were the most responses correct 42 in Lesson 21 and the least 9 in Lesson 23 and 24.
Alltogether there were 637 things to say and I said 550 of them wrong or didn’t say them at all and only 87 were said right. So, as I’ve said already the overall percentage is 14 % (un)success. What actually saved to be over 10 % in lesson 25 was also fact that there was less things introduced - 108 (in other Lessons average of 120).
Wrap up of the whole course 2 would be 37 %
Beginning with almost magnificent 53 % in first set of 7 lessons, the success rate slowly dropped down to 51 % in second set of 7 lessons and then there came the rapid drop in last two sets (one of 7 and one of 5 lessons - 21 and 14 %.
There were alltogether 3411 structures to be said and I said them 2162 wrong. As said, alltogether success rate it is 37 % thanks to (now I see clearly) quite successful first two sets of lessons.
So, @aran, answer to you
- Lesson 21 25 % (Edit made later as I obviously thought too fast and typed even faster mistakenly writing it was 53 %)
- Lesson 25 12 %
If I mark the whole learning process so far through those two courses measuring the success rate it would be 64 %
Actually alltogether not even so bad anyway but most of because of good Course 1 which was (wanting or not this is neccessary to admit) repeated for the 4th time already .
From 7406 structures to be said in both lessons I’ve said them 4744 correct and 2662 wrong.
Some stats for your curiousity (or maybe not) purpose:
- Alltogether you are required 7406 structures to say (+ those I’ve overslept in Course 1
) - The highest number of things to say is 191 in lesson 9 of Course 1
- The least what was required from you was in Lesson 0 of Course 2 - you needed to say only 64 things.
Well to conclude this … I’ll take “day off” tomorrow and wait for Aran’s instructions what to do next.
This much for now.
Da boch a diolch i darllen.
Now start enjoying the vocab lessons for course two.
Hopefully around about November we can have a skype chat and i won’t be surprised if you are correcting my welsh at times. da iawn.
Cheers J.P.
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Would agree on this.
Haha! I wonder who would correct who … Probably it would be just oposite way.
Diolch.
Oh, well, and I’ve left out Vocab lessons on purpose. I intend to do them when I finish (If I finish) all three courses. Let’s wait and see.
@aran siriously, what should I do next. I had an idea to repeat those lessons which were 10 % or below and maybe even write some things down but I’m not sure if it’d do any good though. Going on Course 3 doesn’t seam to me to be an option, but correct me if I’m wrong.
and I was sirious about that being a bit lost at the moment (if I count out momental “clecs” happyness. )