I was asked a little while ago “Lle bues ti?” And I realised I’d only ever heard this form and never read it. How do spell Bues for each person?
Bues i, buest ti, buodd e/o/hi, buon ni, buoch chi, buon nhw
Buodd shortened, often, to Bu. I remember doing the Canolradd course and being told, several times, that the phrase for somebody dying is ‘Bu farw…’ and the first sentence I said the following term was to explain my absence the following week, Bu farw fy mrawd. You see it on graves, in newspapers and you hear it on the news.
Hi. Im still pretty much much a novice in these things, but finally something that I can actually help with😁. (Swansea based).
The odd “sut” will definitely be understood, as that is what is taught in school and my friend who is a teacher uses it in general speech. In the South, shwd ma or shwmae are also common though as Siaron says.
For like, I mostly here “lico” (sounding like: licko) without or with the I after the c. So “licwn i” will be “I would like”.
I find this interesting, because Iestyn teaches us hoffi in the Southern course, and he certainly doesn’t speak learner-ese! I’m so used to using hoffi at this point, after three plus years of SSiW - it would take a concerted effort to switch to licio now. Although, since I live in the US, it’s not a particularly important issue
(I like that Very Good Dictionary myself…very useful
Then there is that very useful related phrase: “dw i’n hoff iawn o …” - “I’m very fond of …”.
I may have overstated there, @AnnaC - although I DID only say ‘dangerously close’, so that sort of gives me an escape hatch, doesn’t it?
Hoffi is certainly well-established, and is heard all over the place, and @mikeellwood 's hoff o is of course the default way of saying ‘fond of’. So NO need to switch to licio, Anna - unless of course you’re going to Ynys Môn perhaps, in which case you might need some form of protective clothing or personal security…
I shall remain undaunted in my use of hoffi, then!
Having learnt a southern version of Welsh, and having learned hoffi first, that’s what I use. Our first tutors are really important to us, the fount of all wisdom, and I can’t bring myself to go against what she said, despite being told, several years later, that licio was a long established and perfectly respectable import into Welsh. The mind says one thing, the heart another.
When I first started I was following Aran and Catrin so everything I was learning was Gog - ddeud, efo, hogan/gyn. When it came to licio my wife turned her nose up and said “that’s really Gog” (why that was a bad thing I’m not sure). At the time I nodded along and chose to learn hoffi instead. Then…THEN, she only went and started using licio naturally!!! Ever since then, whenever native “experts” say they “never say this” or “never hear that”, I take it with a very healthy pinch of salt.
Plaid Hoffi, count me in!
I did Southern course, too so that’s what naturally comes to my mind.
I also have to add that once I had inadvertently switched to Northern and licio popped up instead.
It got me laughing because it sounds very much like an expression from the local dialect here (extended to Italian, in this area) that means to lick, but with an intentional humorous touch. Sberliccare, sberlicchio (pronounced as sberlicio). I just can’t say licio without thinking of that.
So, definitely, I’m going to stick to hoffi!
Dwi’n hoffi hoffi hefyd.
It looks like you bit off more than you could chew there, Gareth! Though it’s interesting to see that people will take my side over Gareth King on matters of Welsh. I’m proud and a little frightened by that - he really does know an awful lot more than me, you know!
For the avoidance of doubt on hoffi vs licio / leicio I am bi-lingual in hoffi and licio. I think hoffi was drummed into me in school, and is common enough that it has never been challenged in my personal dialect. BUT, licio is very common in the south, and Gareth is right to say that “Learners” always use hoffi. (You should be proud to be a second-language speaker - few people have the commitment and work ethic to do what you are doing! But being a Learner [capital L] is a bit more of a double edged sword!)
On the other hand, for other usages of “to like”, once you’re getting into additional endings like the conditionals etc, I’ve always been taught things like “bydden i’n hoffi”, but it;s much more natural for me to hear and use “licen i” (I would like) and the beautiful “licsen i” (I would have liked) rather than hoffen i.
So, if you’re using hoffi, there’s nothing wrong with it, and don’t think of it as “northern” or “southern”, it’s just one of two words that are used!
That’s the beauty of Stockholm Syndrome…
Ha ha, such lovely people on the Island. So easy to get on with. To be fair, on our whistle-stop tour, we only heard Isio, not hoffi or licio.
PS. I’m really sorry that we didn’t get chance to meet up with anyone as we were just passing through quickly. Hopefully, next time.
Thanks so much for your post, Iestyn. As someone without a community around me, it’s hard for me to know what is most commonly used, or what might be a Gog/De difference vs just a different choice. Listening to radio/tv isn’t the same as living there! Since you’ve been my teacher, it’s great to hear your perspective. And it’s not about taking sides - I’m so grateful to be able to have a “conversation” like this. Diolch yn fawr iawn iawn to both of you for being on the forum! And to everyone else who is here, too! Dw i’n hoffi’r fforwm ‘ma yn fawr iawn
If Elin Fflur says hoffi on the teledu, or even more excitingly to you personally, then you KNOW it’s a dream, and you should wake up! It’s an accepted test all over Wales.
Yes, I think it is definitely promoted in schools rather than leicio, ditto in many (particularly beginners’) classes. But as others have said here, leicio is very very widespread not only in the N but also in other parts - I’ve heard plenty of S native speakers say lico.
Go with local usage, or alternatively just pick the one you like!
Leicio fans may also be chuffed to know that with their verb (and not with hoffi) there is a special -s- extension for use with unreality endings if you fancy it. So as well as leiciwn i I would like, you can also have leicsiwn i or licswn i; similarly for example Leicsiet ti banad? / Licset ti banad? Would you like a cup of tea All sounds very very native!
Dylwn also has this option: dylswn i = dylwn i, ddylsech chi ddim = ddylech chi ddim and so on and so forth…
Leicio/hoffi, bachgen/hogyn, fenyw/dynnes, yma/fan hyn/fan ma…etc. When I started learning, and still to a more limited extent, this was a source of frustration. I have to learn two dialects to understand people? This is a crazy language???
Now I see this as one of the many things that makes Cymraeg a really cool language to learn. So much variety…I love it. The best part is when I do finally visit Wales and speak, if I receive any strange looks from my choice of words, I’ll smile proudly and say, “I’ve learned from the best speakers in all of Wales - Aran and Iestyn”.