Tiny questions with quick answers - continuing thread


#5276

Distinction between … “Beth” (pa beth) and “Yr hyn sydd” … both mean “what” … but in different contexts?
Beth used as a question “what” ,… yr hyn sydd … used for non-questions

Yr hyn sy’n gwneud yr eisteddfod profiad pleserus … What makes the Eisteddfod an enjoyable experience … etc

Am I correct? Is there a better way of explaining this?


#5277

May I test my ability to guess Welsh meanings on Sunday morning? :slight_smile:
Yr hyn sy’n would be literally the this that, am I right?

It seems like what in Italian we translate as “ciò che” (something I don’t know how to translate in English…a bit like the what that, this thing that
A bit more formal, and used in written form more than speaking, or to emphasize the thing you’re referring to a bit more than with a generic what.


#5278

That’s how I read it too - a slight emphasis. So although in English you can say what makes the Eisteddfod an enjoyable experience is (followed by whatever it is), you could just as easily say the thing that makes the Eisteddfod an enjoyable experience is (whatever). If I translated the above sentence I’d probably do the second one (possibly because I’m too word-for-word :slightly_smiling_face:)
To me, yr hyn + sydd is a way of emphasising something (you find out what ‘it’ is at the end of the sentence presumably).


#5279

To me, there’s a lot of information being conveyed in the ond here, where in English and I guess in Welsh if you wanted to, you could or would insert more words. To me ond is more like you’d here in expressions like dim ond - for only and in English you might say when or while only, but here ond is sufficient to say all of that on it’s own, if you want to. That’s my “not really qualified to really comment” opinion anyway.

I’ve just been googling and it’s very common to see a hithau ond followed by age and ac yntau ond followed by age etc. It just seems a common way to express this sort of thing - it’s verging on idiomatic to me, but I’m sure a grammar expert could disect it if they wanted to.


#5280

Yes I understand. So, that which makes …
Tbh - y peth sy’n neud/the thing that makes - seems to come to my mind. Only beause @Nicky taught me to twist stuff around to fit my current knowledge.


#5281

Thanks everyone who chimed in on my question. I believe I understand a little better how these (particular) phrasings work now. Here’s how I have now come to think of this latter phrase:
… bywyd a ddaeth i ben a hithau ond yn 26 oed. = “… a life which came to an end and she but 26 years old.”

Which sounds to me rather old-fashioned and british, but that makes sense too!


#5282

Neither do I :wink:


#5283

its a weird one … but Im coming across yr hyn sydd (sy) construct more the more I reading (well capitain obvious here!)


#5284

need a bit of with pronunciation with a local placename

Spelt Ewloe but I think the Welsh is ‘ewlo’

Locals say “you-low” which sounds very anglicised to me… but who knows.

Could it be ‘eh’oo-loh’ ???

The area is just east of a long running lingual boundary between Welsh and English only speakers for a good 300 years … hence why I dont know who to trust XD


#5285

The bilingual signboard at Ewloe has the same spelling in both languages. Of course, there’s no hint of pronunciation there. Your suggestion for a Welsh pronunciation could be close.


#5286

Ewloe in english (you-low)
Ewlo in Welsh (Eh-oo-lo (as in lock, not as in low))

@brynle @Sionned


#5287

From Gareth’s excellent tome Modern Welsh…
…spoken Welsh has something approaching a relative pronoun: yr hyn meaning that which… or the thing which… It usually corresponds to what in natural English, and beth is an acceptable alternative in Welsh.
Beth dach chi i gyd yn feddwl am yr hyn welson ni ar y llwyfan heno?
What do you all think about what we saw on stage tonight?
Yr hyn sy isio ar fryder ydy ymateb uniongyrchol a chadarn
What is urgently needed is a direct and firm response
Yr hyn ydy Uned Gelf ydy cylchgrawn misol newydd
What Uned Gelf is, is a new monthly magazine
Note in the last two examples that yr hyn, like what, can be used at the front of a sentence to anticipate something that is about to be mentioned.


#5288

.

What does ‘gia’ mean … I see it written colloquailly in northern Wales


#5289

Not sure so this is just a guess. Could it be a shortening of the word “hogia” (boys) dropping the “ho” at the beginning. Colloquial Welsh seems to do this sort of thing a lot! Would that make sense in the context of where you saw it?


#5290

@aran @garethrking
I stand corrected gentlemen - I blame having a wisdom tooth taken out :wink:


#5291

Ha ha. No one would have noticed. It didnt affect the overall meaning. So was it masculine feminine thing? If so im taking it that the person was a man. So not Janice Joplin?


#5292

THAT old excuse! :wink:


#5293

So wisdom teeth really are aptly named?


#5294

well that’s my excuse and I’m sticking to it :wink:
what I haven’t worked out is how many years “older & wiser” are needed to compensate for losing a wisdom tooth :laughing:


#5295

It’s a perfectly good excuse, Siaron - I frequently use it myself.