Lloer is very definitely rather poetic, quaint and antiquated - unlike its derivative lloeren, which means satellite!
How and when do I use ‘diwrnod’ as opposed to ‘dydd’? Have asked lots of Welsh speaking friends and they struggle to explain a clear difference. I understand that special days are diwrnod, eg Diwrnod Santes Dwynwen but other than that…help!!
This is my understanding:
Diwrnod is the more solid 24 hours in cases like “first day of the holiday”
“second day of the week”
Dydd is more used in phrases like the names of the days of the week, or “everyday” etc
You can also say “dydd Gŵyl Dewi” so the special days are just…special
On a less specific note, diwrnod is a 24hr day, dydd is the opposite of nos (night). Still lots of ambiguity though.
How would you say:
What language is this/that?
(Or band, instrument, car…)
Should this and that be feminine/masculine depending on what they refer to?
Anyway, I would try with:
Beth iaith yw hun? (O’r is it hyn)?
Not sure though!
I would probably say “pa iaith/band/car ydy hwn/na?”
Thanks,I was wondering if it’s more of a which or a what, but we rarely make that distinction in everyday language in Italy!
And also now I understand what felt wrong in the hun … I tend to use Italian alphabet at times…it was w not u!
p.s. I’ve been thinking why I didn’t remember ydy at all - it looks like it’s more of a Northern thing, right?
Well I’m not so sure actually - it’s much more usually dydd for special days. Christmas Day is Dydd Nadolig after all, not Diwrnod Nadolig (although The Twelve Days of Christmas, where you’re dealing with successive periods of twenty-four hours, is indeed Deuddeg Diwrnod Nadolig). And certainly Dydd Santes Dwynwen is much more common than Diwrnod Santes Dwynwen. And surely we all celebrate Dydd Gŵyl Dewi Sant?
In last year’s thread on “Dydd versus Diwrnod” I said
I believe you can also use “diwrnod” to indicate a special day as “journée” versus “jour” in French and giornata” versus “giorno” in Italian. “Bonjour” and “Buon giorno” just mean “good day / hello” whereas Bonne journée” and “Buona giornata” mean something like “Have a nice day”*
Journée and giornata are feminine but jour and giorno are masculine. I haven’t checked whether the same applies to diwrnod and dydd.
Forgetting my reference to “a special day”, do you think there is something in this?
Yes I do. And it is interesting that diwrnod and giornata appear to be direct cognates, isn’t it?
Interesting indeed - I see it now you mention it. Diolch
I the have to admit, just like @HuwJones, I hadn’t realized!
I should probably have imagined someone saying giornata with an accent from Southern Italy like…
'na jurnata 'e sole.
p.s. but now my brain who’s in Cymraeg-mode on the Forum, now’s wondering why there’s also some Welsh in it ('na and e). Ah, learning languages can be confusing at times!
And of course we must always remember, @gisella-albertini, that there is a particularly close link between Celtic and Italic within the Indo-European family - they stuck together for a while when other branches had split off, and show some shared features accordingly (like the passive -r, for example - and in lots of vocabulary).
There are styles of writing that really throw me. In the news today I read the following and sort of got the gist, but not the construction. The English version of the story is below and not a direct translation by any means. The first paragraph isn’t too bad, but I don’t understand the “I” between wedi and rhywun, but the second seems to be missing something for my comprehension - I read it as “Heddlu Gwent said to their town’s police for the rest of the night” - missing a bit about remaining or doing something? .
Bu’n rhaid i un plismon beidio bod ar ddyletswydd am gyfnod wedi i rywun ymosod arno.
Dywed Heddlu Gwent i swyddogion blismona’r dre weddill y nos.
one police officer who was also assaulted, later returned to duty.
Officers remained in the town centre for the rest of the evening.
I can’t really help you with the grammatical intricacies here, but plismona is the verb in that sentence (a word I incidentally picked up in Catrin’s word of the day thread the other day)
So the sentence
Dywed Heddlu Gwent i swyddogion blismona’r dre weddill y nos. translates to:
Gwent Police told the officers to police the town the rest of the night.
That’s it and now it makes sense - I thought plismona was the plural of plismon - (plismonau?)
diolch yn fawr iawn
I get something like …
One policeman had to ‘not be’ on duty after someone attacked him.
Gwent Police told officers to police the town for the rest of the night.
sounds perfect - I still don’t get the need for the “I” between wedi and rywun though, but this is a weak spot for me generally.