Ymarfer Cymraeg

For Elswyth and me and anyone who might care to join us

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Ah, prynhawn da. Dw i ddim yn meddwl bydda iā€™n medru dweud beth dw i eisau yn dda iawn, achos dw i ddim yn medru siarad Cymraeg, ond bydda iā€™n trioā€™n galed.

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I do apologize for all the missing mutations and eventual mistakes and/or unnatural collocations, I promise Iā€™ll improve) I also apologize for talking to you, Elswyth, using the ā€œtiā€ form, your beautiful way of writing inspires a more respectful form of addressing you, but alas, Iā€™m not as familiar with ā€œchiā€ as with ā€œtiā€. I suppose we can always switch to it later on?
Prynhawn da! Dwi ddim yn meddwl dwiā€™n gallu siarad Cymraeg yn dda, ond dwiā€™n moyn trio. Maeā€™n rhaid i fi dechrau, beth bynnag!
Ti wedi gofyn am ā€œMabinogiā€. Dw iā€™n hoffi stori Pwyll achos dwiā€™n hoffi Rhiannon yn fawr. A ti? Pwy rhan oā€™r lyfr wyt tiā€™n hoffi? Wyt ti wedy gweld darluniau Alan Lee? Dw iā€™n meddwl maen nhwā€™n hyfryd yn fawr.
Wyt tiā€™n hoffi llyfrau eraill am chwedlau? Wnes i dechrau hoffi mytholeg yn yr ysgol. Wnes i darllen llawer o lyfraw am chwedlau Gwyddelig bryd ā€˜ny. Ac wnes i dysgu ā€œhanes a damcaniaeth diwilliannauā€ (history and theory of cultures) yn y brifisgol, ac wnes i darllen chwedlau o LLychlyn, Ffrainc a Rwsia ā€˜na. Ond dwiā€™n hoffi chwedlaw o Prydain odiaeth. Dwiā€™n darllen llyfr diddorol iawn am chwedlau Cymraeg nawr, a bydda iā€™n darllen llyfr am Cernyw nesa.
Bydda iā€™n hapus i wybod rhywbeth am ti, os gwellwch yn dda)

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Tiā€™n gwneud yn dda digon. (Youā€™re doing well enough.) Tiā€™n gallu siarad Cymraeg; dim llawer, efallai, ond tiā€™n ei siarad hi ;). (You can speak Welsh; not lots, maybe, but you speak it :wink: )

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That is quite all right - I only know how to use ti as well. Moreover, I know far less Welsh than yourself overall, therefore apologise if I all I write is repetitive, strewn with mistakes and answering the wrong question entirely.

Wnes i licio Pwyll Pendefig Dyfed hefyd, achos dw iā€™n licio darllen am Annwn, a wnes i feddwl Manawyddan Fab Llyr [was most interesting - I know not how to structure that]. Dw i wedi gweld darluniau* Alan Lee, ond does gen i ddim y llyfr [with them in]. Wnes i ddechrau* licio dysgu am mytholeg achos wnes i ddarllen The Lord of the Rings a The Silmarillion pryd wnes i ifanc - dw iā€™n serchuā€™r Noldor. Dw iā€™n gwybod tiā€™n dysgu Cymraeg a Kernowek; wyt tiā€™n dysgu iath arall hefyd? Dw i ddim yn medru ysgriffenu (?) yn y Gymraeg yn dda iawn - maeā€™n ddrwg gen i!

'Tis frustrating having to write worse than a four year old might. Hopefully you shall forgive me until Iā€™ve learnt better, yet this nonsense is all I can manage at present! I must say the books you mentioned sound quite splendid, and likewise did those you spoke of earlier. Forgive me if you have already said, yet might I ask the name of the one wherein thereā€™s a fellow named Gwidion?

*I shall have to suppose that means drawings or illustrations, though I could be wrong.
*This must mean ā€˜beganā€™, yet Iā€™m not sure how to use the word; it likely doesnā€™t even soften as Iā€™ve made it do.

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Oh please do not apologize, talking to you is such a pleasure! And I donā€™t know more Cymraeg than you do, my geiriadur does (I mentally thank Gareth King for this dictionary every day, I spend most of my time with it). And I make mistakes even in English, unfortunately, as itā€™s not my mother-tongue. Maeā€™n ddrug da fi, Rwsiaid ydw i!
The book about Gwidion is ā€œA school in Carmarthenā€ by Anna Korosteleva. It is a delightful book about a school of magic in Wales, full of gentle humour and very interesting things about Celtic and Scandinavian mythology. But it is in Russian, Iā€™m afraid. I could look for a translation into English (if it exists), if you wish? The other book I mentioned are ā€œBritish goblins: Welsh folkloreā€ (itā€™s available online and I strongly recommend it, if youā€™re interested in folklore ā€“ it has lots of stories of elves, pixies and suchā€¦).
Oh, ti wedi darllen Silmarillion, ā€˜te? Dw iā€™n caru y llyfr ā€˜ma! (yn arbennig Noldor a Feanor). Dw iā€™n gwybod iaith Tolkien yn debig i Gymraegā€¦ Wnes i foyn dysgu Quenya pryd wnes i ifanc. Dwiā€™n cofio caneuon yn Quenya yn dal. :sunny: Beth llyfrau eraill wyt tiā€™n hoffi?
Dwiā€™n deall tiā€™n dysgu tafodiaith ogleddod (northern dialect)? Dwiā€™n dysgu deheuol (southern). Does dim problem, gobeithio? Dwiā€™n gallu deall beth tiā€™n ysgrifenuā€¦ *

Dw iā€™n dysgu Cymraeg a Kernowek nawr. Ond dw iā€™n gallu siarad Rwsiaid, Eiddaleg a Saesneg, a dw iā€™n gwybod Ffrangeg (dw i ddim yn gallu ei siarad i yn dda, ond dw iā€™n gallu cyfieithu (I donā€™t know how to say make written translations) A ti? Wyt tiā€™n gallu iaith arall? Dw iā€™n gwybod tiā€™n dod o Lloegr, wyt tiā€™n byw yna?
*I canā€™t help but quote ā€œThe school in Carmarthenā€ once again here. ā€œGwidion was from the North and Llewellis from the South, and at first they understood so little of each otherā€™s accents that they were forced to speak Latinā€ (sorry for my sloppy translation) I hope it doesnā€™t happen to us.

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Ah, wnes i brynu llyfr [by] Gareth King heddiw, ond dw i ddim wedi darllen o dim byd [yet]. Dw iā€™n meddwl tiā€™n siarad Saesneg yn dda iawn (exceedingly well, and if I can ever speak another language so competently bydda iā€™n hapus iawn).

My word, that does sound rather wonderful, yet I would not wish to put you to any great trouble having to look for a translation on my sorry behalf! I shall certainly seek out the other, as I am indeed dreadfully fond of that sort of thing.

Yndw, dw iā€™n dysgu [the northern dialect]. My forebears were from Gwynedd. Pam wyt ti eisiau dysgu [the southern]? I must say, that did amuse me about having to resort to speaking Latin; hopefully we shanā€™t have that much bother.

Do, dw i wedi darllen Y Silmarillion! Dw iā€™n hapus tiā€™n licio fo hefyd. Dw i ddim wedi dysgu Quenya neu Sindarin, ond dw iā€™n gwybod [a few words]. [About songs] Dw iā€™n licio ā€˜NamĆ”riĆ«ā€™ ac ā€˜A Elbereth Gilthonielā€™/ ā€˜Aerlinn in Edhil o Imladrisā€™.

A dw iā€™n licio darllen llyfrau am hanes ac yn y Hen Saesneg (wyt tā€™in dweud 'caniadau yn y Hen Saesneg? Dw i ddim yn gwybod, ond dw iā€™n licio 'The Battle of Brunanburh, The Wanderer, The Fight and Finnsburh, Beowulf and so on).

Yndw, dw iā€™n Seisnig* a dw iā€™n byw yn West Sussex. Wyt tiā€™n licioā€¦ your homeland?
Dw i ddim yn medru siarad iath arall; wnes i ddim dysgu mewn(?) ysgol. Dw iā€™n mynd i drio dysgu Kernowek a Gaelg (maeā€™n ddrwg gen i - dw i ddim yn gwybod sut i ddeud o yn y Gymraeg). Dw i eisiau dysguā€¦ Irish and Faroese, yet Irish orthography - though most lovely - is somewhat threatening.

The amount of languages you know is mightily impressive. Do I recall rightly that you are a teacher of languages?


*I have guessed thatā€™s the way to say ā€˜Englishā€™ when speaking of the folk rather than the language, yet could be wrong.

(I apologise for taking so long to answer, might I add. Iā€™ve had to be elsewhere and away from this wretched computer of mine for much of the time.)

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Diolch yn fawr, dw iā€™n hapus my English is not bothering you too much. I love English, I read and practice it every day, and I even wrote some stories (stylized ghost stories) in it, but I always feel very self-conscious while talking to native speakers.
Beth ew enw llyfr Gareth King? (What is the name of the book by Gareth King that you have?) Mae ā€œColloquial Welshā€ a ā€œModern Welsh dictionaryā€ gyda fi. Dw iā€™n cysgu, bwyta a yfed gyda y geiriadur ā€˜ma. :smile:
Dw i ddim yn gwybod pam dw i wedi dechrau dysgu tafodiaith deheuol (this means southern dialect, hopefully). Mae Caerfyrddin (Carmarthen) yn Ne Cymru. (South Wales). A dw iā€™n caru Caerfyrddin, dw Iā€™n moyn mynd yno a gweld y dre ā€˜maā€¦ Ond dw iā€™n athrawes. (teacher. so I donā€™t even hope to get a UK visa. weā€™ll love each other on the distance, me and Carmarthen :smile: ) Wyt tiā€™n gwybod llawer am dy deulu o Gwynedd? (your family from Gwynedd)
Dw iā€™n hoffi ā€œNamarieā€ (can Galadriel o ā€œLord of the Ringsā€, iawn? ā€œAi! lauriĆ« lantar lassi sĆŗrinenā€), maeā€™n hyfryd. Dw iā€™n hoffi ā€œOndolindeā€, hefyd. Mae hiā€™n can yn Quenya. Mae cantores Rwsiaid wedi ysgrifenu y can ā€˜ma.
Dwiā€™n hoffi ā€œBeowulfā€ yn fawr, a dw iā€™n hoffi Hen Saesneg, ond alla i ddim yn darllen llyfrau yn Hen Saesneg yn dda. Dw iā€™n hoffi ā€œNibelungenliedā€ a ā€œTristan et Yseultā€ a storiau am Brenin Arthur, hefyd. Wyt tiā€™n hoffi y llyfrau ā€˜ma? Dw iā€™n caru Shakespeare, hefyd (I donā€™t know how to say ā€œamong later literatureā€)
Dw iā€™n caru Belarws iawn. Ond mae teulu nhad (ma fatherā€™s family) yn Greek a wnes i fyw yn Abhazia pryd wnes i ifanc, a wedyn wnes I fyw yn Eiddaleg. (I lived in Abhazia when I was a child and then in Italy. And I can say my heart is divided between lots of countries: Belarus, Russia, Abhazia and Italyā€¦)
Wyt tiā€™n hoffi West Sussex? Dw iā€™n meddwl mae Lloegr yn hyfrydā€¦
Is Gaelg Scottish Gaelic? Youā€™re so very brave, thenā€¦ Dw I wedi trio dysgu Gwyddeleg ( Irish), ond mae hiā€™n anodd iawn! I still have an Irish textbook and it makes me cryā€¦ And Faroese, is it a live language? Please forgive my ignoranceā€¦ Are you interested in Manx or Breton as well? (Brezhoneg)
I am a teacher, yes, though my degree is not in teaching. I teach English, Italian and Russian as a foreign language. Lle wyt tiā€™n gweithio? (Where do you work, if Iā€™m not mistaken)
Diolch yn fawr I y sgwrs ā€˜ma, dwiā€™n hapus iawn ymarfer Cymraeg a siarad a ti! Paid a phoeni, if you donā€™t answer quickly, Iā€™m on holiday now so Iā€™m mainly free to talk, but I can understand that other people can be engaged elsewhere!

This is the book I mentioned, which I hope you will enjoy. https://archive.org/details/britishgoblinswe00sikerich

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Maybe someday when you have time you could translate some of your stories into Welsh for us to read :smile:

Diolch yn fawr, I really want to read this book.

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I hope so, but itā€™ll be in a very distant future, Iā€™ve been studying Cymraeg for two months only.

Iā€™m very glad there are people interested in this kind of books :sunny: Iā€™m planning to read after I finish this book another one about Welsh and Manx folklore and if you wish I can leave the link to it here too. Celtic folklore is truly amazing.

Yes, please. I love Celtic folklore

Oh, thatā€™s wonderful :sunny: I hope youā€™ll enjoy them.
ā€œCeltic folklore, Welsh and Manxā€


Folk-lore of west and mid-Wales

I wanted to be a folklore researcher, when I was at school. And Iā€™m still fascinated by it.

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Diolch yn fawr.

Mae gen i lyfr [called - a enwyd?] ā€˜Basic Welsh Grammarā€™. Hopefully it shall knock some sense into me.

The only people I know much about at all are those from very, very long ago - the line from Gwriad down through to Llewelyn Fawr, for example. For those of a less noble a lineage, it can be somewhat hard to find writings many about them!

Bydda iā€™n trio darllen am Belarws, achos dw i ddim yn gwybod dim byd amdani/o (which is likely rather rude, and hopefully you shall forgive me).

Yndw, dw iā€™n licioā€™r freoedd* yn Sussex (the South Downs), ond dw iā€™n ffafrio(?) y gorllewin - Dartmoor ac yn y blaen*. Iā€™d like to move elsewhere, as there are too many people in south-east England and Iā€™d dearly like to live somewhere with much more unspoilt countryside and a lot more rain.

'Tis Manx (in Manx, achos dw i ddim yn gwybod yr enw yn y Gymraeg). Dw i ddim yn meddwl bydda iā€™n medru dysgu GĆ idhlig/ Scottish Gaelic, neu Gwyddeleg! Brezohoneg - dw i ddim wedi meddwl amdani llawer. Wyt ti eisiau dysgu Brezhoneg?

Aye, I think some folk still speak Faroese (I might guess around fifty thousand, though could easily be awfully mistaken).

Ah, beth wnest ti gwneud [at] prifysgol? Dw i ddim yn gweithio achos bydda iā€™n mynd i* prifysgolā€¦ in September. Dw i ddim yn medru gwneud rhywbeth beth dw i eisiau, ond felly mae yn de.
(I am doing some ā€˜volunteeringā€™ business now, however, hence why I am elsewhere a lot!)

Is a smashing book indeed, and I too would recommend the thing to @rickyfreeman. I most liked the Welsh accounts of everyoneā€™s dealings with the Little People. I thank you most kindly for the link to the other you left for me, and I shall surely wander over to it ere long.

Maeā€™n ddrwg gen i, if I have answered dreadfully. I am rather tired, thus do not think my mind is working especially well this evening!


*I think bre/ pl. breoedd is a word for hills/ 'highlands (although theyā€™re certainly not very high in Sussex, it must be said), and a feminine noun. Sorry if I am mistaken, however.
*I have seen so many ways to say ā€˜and so forthā€™ Iā€™m unsure which to use.
*I have only ever seen mynd iā€™r (prif)ysgol written elsewhere, yet would that not mean going to ā€˜theā€™ school? I know not.

Iā€™m used to ā€˜brynā€™ for hill (that does not mean i am right).
Uchldir for highland. Iseldir for lowland, ffermdir for farmland.

I seem to remember this is a feature of Welsh where at times it needs the (yr)
like ā€˜siarad yr cymraegā€™ speak the welsh.

Sorry if it feels like iā€™m poking my nose in here but as a fellow learner iā€™m finding the thread interesting.

Cheers J.P.

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Ah, I thank you sir. Worry not, might I add, for I am most grateful to be corrected and taught better when Iā€™m in need of it.

P.S. Do forgive me for saying ā€˜writings manyā€™ instead of ā€˜many writingsā€™. 'Tis to that sort of thing I meant to refer when I spoke of being appallingly tired. :wink:

ā€¦ And so too for forgetting to soften gwneud after wnest ti. I am a dreadful fool.

Oh, so youā€™re of a very interesting and noble lineage! You must feel really proud of itā€¦Are you trying to research it? (though I suppose it must be quite hard to research things so far away in the history) I donā€™t know as much about the true history of Cymru as I want to, I apologize, Iā€™ve always been more concentrated on researching the folklore and the small habits and customs of peopleā€™s everyday life. But Iā€™m going to improve! Iā€™ve given a link in another topic to a book Iā€™m reading in Cymraeg now ā€“ ā€œStoriau o hanes Cymruā€. It has parallel Symraeg-Saesneg texts, and is quite interesting

Mae Belarws yn hyfryd a maeā€™n hanes ddiddorol gyda hi. But it has always been part of some other country (the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, then Rec Pospolita, then Russian Empire) so Iā€™m never surprised that people donā€™t know much about itļŠ But my hometown, Vitebsk, is a bit famous in the art world ā€“ the painter Mark Chagall was born here.
Maeā€™n ddrug da fi, dwi ddim yn gwybod beth yw oed ti ac wnes i feddwl tiā€™n gweithio yn barod. Beth wyt tiā€™n mynd I ddysgu yn brifysgol? Wyt tiā€™n mynd I ddysgu yn West Sussex neu lle arall? Wnes i ddysgu ā€œhanes a damcaniaeth diwilliannauā€ (history and theory of cultures). Bues i (I was) hapus iawn mewn brifysgol ā€“ wnes I ddysgu hanes cerddoriaeth, hanes celfyddyd, llenidiaethā€¦ (history of music, history of art, literature) Wyt tiā€™n hoffi celfyddyd? Your profile picture reminds me very stongly of the Pre-raphaelite art.
Dwiā€™n hoffi Iwerddon yn dda a o iā€™n moyn dysgu Gwyddeleg, ond mae hiā€™n amhosib! Mae gwerslyfr gyda fi, ond dwiā€™n ei ofni e (Iā€™m afraid of it) Ond dwiā€™n gwybod ac dwiā€™n gallu canu caniau yn Wyddeled ac Gaeleg yr Alban. Dwiā€™n hoffi canuļŠ
Iā€™m still interested in Irish, because Iā€™m interested in all Celtic languages and everything that concerns history of the British isles, but the language certainly looks quite scary! When, as Aran promised, the courses in Irish, Manx, and Scottish Gaelic are ready I will hang out here every day just to admire the people who are trying to learn these languages! Brezhoneg, on the other side, looks lovely and familiar and very similar to Cymraeg, and I would very much like to learn some of it later, if only for the fact that the population of the people who can speak it is getting older, and the younger people are not so eager to learn it, so itā€™s endangered nowā€¦

It seems to be a very interesting language, though itā€™s Germanic and not Celtic. To my uneducated eye itā€™s similar to German in lexisā€¦

Maeā€™n ddrwg da fi, maeā€™n ysgrifen yn ofnadwy heno. Dwi wedi blino, dwiā€™n meddwl.
Oh, and Iā€™m glad we share opinion about ā€œFolklore: Welsh and Manxā€ book. Do you like Scandinavian folklore too, or just the British one? I must admit I have a soft spot for Scandinavian tales as wellā€¦

As for the missing soft mutation - please do not worry, I myself make so many mistakes that itā€™s appalling, but Iā€™m sure that our practising will do us good:) Itā€™s a bit frustrating not to be able to express all the complicated things that I would be able to say in Englsih, but it will eventually happen, Iā€™m sure of it.

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Please, feel free to correct (as youā€™re clearly more experienced in Welsh) or even join our conversation, if you wish:)

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