Tiny questions with quick answers - continuing thread


#5417

It’s one of those where they can’t always swap - so if it’s after the phrase, it can be eisoes or yn barod, if it’s before, it’ll have to be eisoes. :slight_smile: So what @Hendrik said… :wink:

If we’ve got a phrase where the English is ‘She used to do that’ and then the Welsh is ‘Roedd hi’n gwneud hynny’, that’s a slip up on our part - sorry!


#5418

Eisoes is a bit more formal/literary in feel, I would say. Other than that, the only difference is position, as @siaronjames has pointed out above.


#5419

Diolch pawb that is great is great thanks. I sort of felt there was something. Sort of an itch.


#5420

There are Welsh placenames for every inch of Wales btw (although its not well advertised)…and many of the places which once spoke Welsh (Southern Scotland to Southern England have older Welsh names)

Learnt about this during post-colonialism studies in the Britain and Ireland module :slight_smile:

In English medium school in Wales this was never covered sadly … but I think its worth covering at least briefly to get a sense of where you live


#5421

arfer / arferion = custom / customs (or tradition/s)

yn arfer - customarily / used to

She was customarily doing that … but “used to” is quicker


#5422

To all those who’ve been discussing Lamphey/Llandyfái, I finally got around to checking the fairly definitive “Dictionary of the Place-names of Wales” by Hywel Wyn Owen and Richard Morgan, and this is what the entry there says:


#5423

… and the ‘A’ has an acute accent so the road sign using a grave accent was indeed incorrect!


#5424

In SSiW challenges I remember always hearing trio for trying/to try.

Today I found a few texts around the web where geisio (that I believe I had seen before as ceisio) translated as trying instead.
What is the difference?

Also, in two sentences they were preceded by wrth (that I don’t remember ever seeing before verbs), like this:

  1. mae ambell berson wedi mynd i ddyfroedd dyfnion wrth geisio canu’r anthem genedlaethol yn gyhoeddus

  2. (…) ac anawsterau wrth geisio dilyn acen gogledd Cymru ac weithiau de Cymru ar raglenni teledu a radio Cymraeg

When is it used?

And since we’re here how would you translate (the meaning of) dilyn in this sentence?


#5425

Ceisio is an older, more formal word - more ‘Welsh’, you might say, if you don’t believe in loan words or new words, but ‘trio’ has been around for a heck of a long time now, and is much more common.

‘Wrth geisio’ - while trying - in the act of trying - probably one of the constructs where you’ll still here ceisio more often than not, although everyone would understand ‘wrth drio’.

Dilyn in your second sentence is a bit of an Anglicisation - it’s ‘follow’ as in ‘to follow the meaning of something’… :slight_smile:


#5426

Trying to figure out all the possible way to say “that”! (I suspect using Italian or Spanish instead of English would help clarify in this case, but anyway!)

  1. I think that you should feel proud of yourself for doing so well - Dwi’n meddwl y dylet ti deimlo’n falch ohonot ti dy hunan am neud mor dda.

  2. You said that you thought it was fairly good - Dwedest ti bo ti’n meddwl bod hi’n eitha da.

  3. I thought [that] you said that you wanted a cup of tea - O’n i’n meddwl i ti ddweud bo ti’n moyn dishgled o de.

Question: why y in the first, bod in the second, and i in the third after meddwl?

Example:

I met someone in the pub last night who said that he knows the young woman - Wnes i gwrdd â rhywun yn y dafarn neithiwr ddwedodd fod e’n nabod y fenyw ifanc

Question: Why nothing here? When can you just skip “that” in Welsh?


#5427

I’ve been trying to compose an answer, but I’m ending up confusing myself! It depends on things like whether the ‘that’ in question is a conjunction or a relative pronoun and what comes before or after… so rather than giving a very long-winded and confusing answer, I think I should hand this one over to @garethrking


#5428

Hi Gisella,

I was involved in quite a discussion about this a while back - possibly more than one actually as I thought Gareth was involved but in fact it ends with a quote from his book - and I have actually managed to find it!..see what you think. I’ll look to see if there is another (found - see link 2 below) …I’m on about version 4 of this post because I can’t spell either this morning!

R :slight_smile:

https://forum.saysomethingin.com/t/that-one-of-the-variants/11373/6?u=rich

https://forum.saysomethingin.com/t/where-does-bod-go-sometimes/12853?u=rich


#5429

Thanks a lot @rich.
I always try a search first, but although I was able to clarify taw, na and a few other “that” I could not find these posts you linked- so much stuff in this forum (and thread)!

edit: reading your answer I realized I also often get lost in the dictionary (Modern Welsh - reference section) and forget the intro section!


#5430

Yes there is an amazing amount of information in these pages.

Tbh, it’s often easier to just answer questions again but in some cases not - I think ‘that’ definitely fits in the second category! :smile:

R


#5431

There is also the intriguing “trial” which I occasionally hear from southern speakers on S4C.
http://geiriadur.ac.uk/gpc/gpc.html
shows it as a variation of trio (which it admits is a loan word, but in use from at least 1679).


#5432

…wow and I thought the situation with some of my library books was bad… :sunny:


#5433

Because that’s a different kind of ‘that’ - it’s a relative ‘that’ (= ‘who’ here), rather than a conjunction ‘that’.


#5434

conjunction ‘that’:
bod (etc) if the quoted original begins with verb bod present (or impf);
y if it begins with any other verb, including other tenses of bod - though there is an option of using i when it’s a preterite;
mai/taw if it begins with something that isn’t a verb at all.

This is always fun, isn’t it?
‘Sheer enjoyment, standing room only’, as a Welsh friend of mine used to say with heavy irony.


#5435

There’s a new book on the way, and a fair proportion of the content revolves round ‘that’-clauses - so I’m thinking (reminded by this thread - thank you @gisella-albertini) THAT (!) a nice appendix on the subject might be a good idea to include.


#5436

Ok, thanks!
However, this makes me think the right question was probably:
why no sydd yn or sy’n (that I had memorized as who) as in
I know someone who likes that film - Dw i’n abod rhywun sy’n hoffi’r ffilm 'na -